Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Bluto10]

More to it than that. A midnight flit for the honkos

can imagine he stood out like a sore thumb there; in the fresh arctic air

 

dust clouds from inland west oz prob ideal to mask lingering odours

[fatjim]

Is there much work for a joiner at a pension company?

 

It's a big building so I guess so. Not much wood around though.

[robbojunior]

Gareth

 

Two lesbians probably. Sisters.  I'm just watching.

[Jocky Balboa]

I have to say, I find the SNP's behaviour curious. I understand the leadership want to 'play the game' and at least be seen to have done all they can to prevent Brexit, but given the Euro elections and Brecon by-election results showed a narrow victory in Leave votes, it's clear the (narrow) will of England and Wales is to leave. If Sturgeon prevents this, not only will she poison relations with our neighbours, won't she be voiding their specific mandate for a second independence referendum?

 

None of us know for sure at this stage what her game is, but isn't it plausible that she's backtracking on a second vote, given that the polls have hardly moved since 2016? Perhaps Scotland isn't as pro-EU as she makes out? Sure, the majority want to Remain, but it doesn't, in itself, seem to be the game changer her pre-2016 referendum rhetoric was implying.

 

(As a side note, I also know for a fact a lot of SNP/YES supporters who are Eurosceptic tactically voted Remain, knowing that England would like vote Leave and that this was the quickest way to a second independence referendum - I wonder how they feel now?)

[Don Fonte]

I have to say, I find the SNP's behaviour curious. I understand the leadership want to 'play the game' and at least be seen to have done all they can to prevent Brexit, but given the Euro elections and Brecon by-election results showed a narrow victory in Leave votes, it's clear the (narrow) will of England and Wales is to leave. If Sturgeon prevents this, not only will she poison relations with our neighbours, won't she be voiding their specific mandate for a second independence referendum?

 

None of us know for sure at this stage what her game is, but isn't it plausible that she's backtracking on a second vote, given that the polls have hardly moved since 2016? Perhaps Scotland isn't as pro-EU as she makes out? Sure, the majority want to Remain, but it doesn't, in itself, seem to be the game changer her pre-2016 referendum rhetoric was implying.

 

(As a side note, I also know for a fact a lot of SNP/YES supporters who are Eurosceptic tactically voted Remain, knowing that England would like vote Leave and that this was the quickest way to a second independence referendum - I wonder how they feel now?)

'For a fact'

 

Lolzers.

[caledonia]

[Studebaker-90]

Witty

[elephantstone78]

Just realised that FFS was referring to pension savings plummeting in relation to indie. Which is private pensions but they have already plummeted due to brexit. They've gone up again a bit but only back to the levels they were almost a year ago. Almost a year of growth completely gone. That's fucked up.

Few things re this.

Stock markets go up and down, always have, always will and brexit can’t be blamed for their fluctuations. Eg they tanked in 2008 long before brexit was an issue. Your work pension should be up a few % over the past year and more if it has exposure to the USA stock market as it has been the best performing stock market for the past few years. Trump’s huge tax cut helped this plus they have behemoths like amazon and google (alphabet) which are up hundreds of % over the past couple of yrs.

 

it’s a quirk of brexit but it has actually been the £ not the ftse that has been walloped. And, when the £ drops you generally see the stock market / ftse 100 rise because the largest companies on it are global companies with the bulk of their earnings earned overseas so they’re worth more when the £ is weak.

 

Bizarrely, if we sort out the brexit debacle by anything other than no deal eg decide to remain which will be good for the £ but could therefore be bad for the ftse meaning you could then actually see your pension drop.

[Jocky Balboa]

Here's a question for you all, regardless of which side of the independence debate you're on; does anyone know exactly what the SNP leadership are trying to achieve with their "stop Brexit" sloganeering?

 

I understand many think they're "playing the game" and trying to be seen to have done all they could to stop Scotland leaving the EU against its will, but it seems like they've gone way beyond that now and are trying very hard to not only impose Remain on England and Wales against their will, but also void their own mandate for a second independence referendum.

 

Baffling.

[Pittodrie_Erupts]

Here's a question for you all, regardless of which side of the independence debate you're on; does anyone know exactly what the SNP leadership are trying to achieve with their "stop Brexit" sloganeering?

 

I understand many think they're "playing the game" and trying to be seen to have done all they could to stop Scotland leaving the EU against its will, but it seems like they've gone way beyond that now and are trying very hard to not only impose Remain on England and Wales against their will, but also void their own mandate for a second independence referendum.

 

Baffling.

 

On the basis that they think that being in the EU is the best thing for Scotland, I'm going to go with trying to make sure that is the situation.

[Jocky Balboa]

On the basis that they think that being in the EU is the best thing for Scotland, I'm going to go with trying to make sure that is the situation.

Fair enough, but doesn't the FM and her happy clappers realise their hypocrisy here? On one hand, they bemoan the fact Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its will (which I accept is true), but simultaneously try to "stop Brexit" and thus keep England and Wales in the EU against their will.

 

Their strategy overall has been full of the kind of arguments Unionist Remainers can (and inevitably will) use against Scotland, in the event of a future YES vote.

 

As a side note, I see Alyn Smith is pitching for a Westminster seat, despite having been re-elected as an MSP. I'm no expert, but it suggests to me he and his SNP heid yins (not to mention his LGBTQIXYZ+ crusader boyfriend) are more interested in shoring up their career politician credentials, than winning independence.

[caledonia]

Here's a question for you all, regardless of which side of the independence debate you're on; does anyone know exactly what the SNP leadership are trying to achieve with their "stop Brexit" sloganeering?

 

I understand many think they're "playing the game" and trying to be seen to have done all they could to stop Scotland leaving the EU against its will, but it seems like they've gone way beyond that now and are trying very hard to not only impose Remain on England and Wales against their will, but also void their own mandate for a second independence referendum.

 

Baffling.

Clowns that seem to always take the goody goody option

 

They need to grow a backbone and play Tories at their own game or at the very least debunk the lies.

 

The SNP seem hell bent on pressing the self destruct button with being to fucking soft added to their obsession with all things Gender related

[Pittodrie_Erupts]

Fair enough, but doesn't the FM and her happy clappers realise their hypocrisy here? On one hand, they bemoan the fact Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its will (which I accept is true), but simultaneously try to "stop Brexit" and thus keep England and Wales in the EU against their will.

 

Their strategy overall has been full of the kind of arguments Unionist Remainers can (and inevitably will) use against Scotland, in the event of a future YES vote.

 

As a side note, I see Alyn Smith is pitching for a Westminster seat, despite having been re-elected as an MSP. I'm no expert, but it suggests to me he and his SNP heid yins (not to mention his LGBTQIXYZ+ crusader boyfriend) are more interested in shoring up their career politician credentials, than winning independence.

 

So they just tailor their beliefs and policies to what you want?

[Pittodrie_Erupts]

Clowns that seem to always take the goody goody option

 

They need to grow a backbone and play Tories at their own game or at the very least debunk the lies.

 

The SNP seem hell bent on pressing the self destruct button with being to fucking soft added to their obsession with all things Gender related

 

What EU lies would those be? 

 

​Are you making the argument that we don't benefit from the EU?

 

Scotland is desperate for inward economic migrants.

[maryhilldon]

 

 

Scotland is desperate for inward economic migrants.

Is it? How is that going to help the overcrowded schools and lengthy hospital waiting times and housing shortage? Aye it's great for employers but who else benefits?

[Jocky Balboa]

So they just tailor their beliefs and policies to what you want?

That's not what I'm saying, if you actually read my post. I'm simply pointing out that, whether people like it or not, England and Wales (and the UK overall) voted to leave the EU. That is their right and the 2017 GE saw both Labour and Tories fight on manifestos to honour the result, sealing 80%+ of the vote between them. The Lib Dems were a very distant third.

 

The subsequent Euro election saw more pro-Brexit than Remain votes UK-wide, as did the Brecon by-election in Wales, despite the seat going to a Remain candidate through tactical voting. In short, England and Wales voted to leave and, given the evidence, haven't changed their minds, so that result should stand.

 

Conversely, Holyrood has a pro-independence majority, elected on a very specific mandate, in the event of this "material change in circumstances". Arguably, NI also has a mandate because it voted Remain and Unionists lost their majority in Stormont in 2017.

 

So, for avoidance of doubt, my point is that the UK as an entity voted Leave. Scotland and NI should let them get on with it, while preparing to give the people a choice of whether or not to leave with them.

[caledonia]

What EU lies would those be?

 

​Are you making the argument that we don't benefit from the EU?

 

Scotland is desperate for inward economic migrants.

Did i mention EU in my entire post

[Jocky Balboa]

I see the narcissistic, turd-burgling SJW Patrick Harvie is standing 20+ candidates in the WM election, despite not having a prayer of winning any seats. If the best electoral "friend" the SNP have is someone who looks like the lovechild of Michael Stipe and Heinrich Himmler, they're in trouble.

 

I can see this either relegating the Greens to a lunatic fringe (ready to be usurped by the new "Wings Party" in 2021) or splitting the pro-independence vote and losing the SNP WM majority.

[Simply Red]

Yeah cos tory cock botherer Thomson, fucking poofter creepo is a better man than Harvie.

[Jocky Balboa]

Yeah cos tory cock botherer Thomson, fucking poofter creepo is a better man than Harvie.

Being a sex offender will likely see Thomson elevated in the Tory Party.

[Simply Red]

Very true

[NEM]

Being a sex offender will likely see Thomson elevated in the Tory Party.

Didn’t do fat Eck any harm in the SNP!

[Henry]

The UK government has formally rejected a call from Scotland's first minister for a second independence referendum.

 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said a referendum would "continue the political stagnation Scotland has seen for the past decade".

 

And he said First Minister Nicola Sturgeon had previously pledged that the 2014 referendum would be a "once in a generation" vote.

 

Ms Sturgeon tweeted that the Tories were attempting to "deny democracy".

 

She said Mr Johnson's formal refusal of her request for a referendum to be held later this year was "predictable but also unsustainable and self defeating", and insisted that "Scotland will have the right to choose".

 

The first minister also said the Scottish government would set out its response and "next steps" before the end of the month, and that the devolved Scottish Parliament would again be asked to "back Scotland's right to choose our own future".

[manboobs109]

I broadly support independence but they should just fucking leave it for a few years. There's no real appetite for one and if there was a referendum they'd lose again.

[Bluto10]

I broadly couldn’t give a fuck about Indy

 

christ tho. what a state the UKs in

 

Indy this\brexit that.

 

shouldn’t have voted (for shit govts) then

 

 

LOL

O

L

[The Boofon]

I broadly support independence but they should just fucking leave it for a few years. There's no real appetite for one and if there was a referendum they'd lose again.

Agreed. Fuck that felt bad.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I see the narcissistic, turd-burgling SJW Patrick Harvie is standing 20+ candidates in the WM election, despite not having a prayer of winning any seats. If the best electoral "friend" the SNP have is someone who looks like the lovechild of Michael Stipe and Heinrich Himmler, they're in trouble.

 

I can see this either relegating the Greens to a lunatic fringe (ready to be usurped by the new "Wings Party" in 2021) or splitting the pro-independence vote and losing the SNP WM majority.

 

I had not seen this hilarious post until now, but - well in Jocky, you have got that hideous wee gnome Harvie down to a 'T' there

 

I once saw in him real life, he is genuinely a horrid little thing. Knee high to a grasshopper.

 

He was with that smirking ginger, speccy twat.  Him that got a school award for being master debator.  

 

2 faces one would never tire of punching.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

 

The UK government has formally rejected a call from Scotland's first minister for a second independence referendum.

 

Good.

 

Note the outrage vacuum.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I was pleased to see the very foul weather for the Glasgow independence march on Saturday there.

 

The people who go to these things are essentially just the 1980s labour support wrapped in tartan.

 

They had banners and things proclaiming "fuck the pure tories byraway".

 

I had been concerned that the SNP have no current plan to pay a state pension after independence but, you know, fuck the pure tories byraway.  I will definitely vote for indy now.

 

Most of the marchers were a walking advert for voting 'no'.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

This apparent drive for a 2nd referendum is coalescing around two things:

 

(1) glib dislike of the Conservative party (1980s labour style)

(2) that wee jimmy krankie wanted a new vote and bad english Boris said no.

 

It is not coalescing around a growing support for independence, encouraged by well considered and detailed plans put in place by the SNP.

 

On the back of this, I am almost tempted to have a 2nd vote