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Scottish Independence Referendum 2


Henry

Should Scotland be an independent country?  

271 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      196
    • No
      75


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14 hours ago, Parklife said:

We'll have whoever we vote for running the country.

"Loony left" ?

I don’t think it’s a huge jump to believe the SNP would be in charge to begin with if a Yes vote was within the next few years.

How else would you describe transvestites being invited into schools? 

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13 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

Nope it was conducted at the wrong time. 

Rightly or wrongly there is a section of the older generation born just before or during the second world war who would never vote for independence. They witnessed the birth of the welfare state and the NHS. They saw their children get free university education and their parents get free long term care in dedicated NHS hospitals when they became too infirm to look after themselves at home. The UK gave them all this. No matter how good the argument for independence was...they were never going to buy into it. However they are dying off at a fair rate of knots now (another perk they got.....seeing their life expectancy rise from their late 60s at the time they were born to what it is now....81). And they are being replaced by 16 year old voters who very much do buy into the indy dream. 

It also helps that Labour in Scotland are now a total joke. Leonard is the worst political leader of any party here in Scotland or UK wide that I can recall. 

It was the SNP that wanted it at that time.

And since the Economics of the Whit Paper were based on the previous 5-10 years oil price, is obvious why.

 

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7 minutes ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

No, but you are correct to be wary if their brand of politics isn't for you.

Who will be negotiating Scotland's exit under Independence...to think it won't be the SNP front bench (as is) would be naïve in the extreme.

1st chair will be Michael Russell, they might try to make it look like is cross party by bringing in Harvie or Greer, but on the basis that the Greens have just hounded out one of their best in Wightman, a principled and bright man, for saying let' slow down on the whole trans thing. They would be firmly on the 'loony left' as you put it, side of things.

Yip spot on 

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Biggest thing for me in the whole independence 'debate', is that in 2014 there was (obviously still is to a great degree) a huge element of leaping in to the dark, and as with all these things those proposing the leap were hugely optimistic on costs and timescales 18 months to negotiate the exit and 150m or so to set up all the institutions was pie in the sky stuff.

We've now had Brexit and see how complex these things are (those of us who have ever had to deal with large scale negotiations or dealt with cross border trade understood that already but hey...) so we now know or should know what is involved.

So let' be realistic in setting out what it will mean, put the correct infrastructure in place to ensure that Scotland has what it will need in place, with the hope that this will create a smooth transition, as Scotland is much more intrinsically linked to the rest of the UK than the UK was to Europe.

I'd also advocate a 2 step process, 1-to start the gun as it were, ie a vote to leave the UK. 2-Once negotiations have concluded and the deal agreed and properly costed institutions etc are set out. A 2nd vote to ratify and accept as a nation the agreements in place.

 

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36 minutes ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

I'd also advocate a 2 step process, 1-to start the gun as it were, ie a vote to leave the UK. 2-Once negotiations have concluded and the deal agreed and properly costed institutions etc are set out. A 2nd vote to ratify and accept as a nation the agreements in place.

 

Doubt the rUK would buy into that, its fucking them about so the Scots can flip flop changing their mind on matters which affect everyone.

In the Brexit context,  2nd vote was only ever suggested as a means of over-turning the result, just as the EU tries to every time.

Still waiting on someone to advocate even a single, clear benefit from independence (there are none) - it seems like a major self inflicted blow, just so people can get tartan passports with gaelic words which they cant read.

 

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4 hours ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

Would you include 'Scots' living elsewhere in the UK or even further afield?

 

How do you quantify Scottish?

I’ve never really understood the rationale behind any ex-pats being entitled to vote. And that applies to UK elections as well as Indie and Brexit referendums.  I don’t see why people who aren’t ordinarily resident in the country and aren’t going to be affected by the outcome are entitled to vote.

The basic principle as far as I’m concerned is that an individual should only be eligible to vote if they’re liable to pay Income Tax in the country affected by the vote.

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2 minutes ago, redone said:

I’ve never really understood the rationale behind any ex-pats being entitled to vote. And that applies to UK elections as well as Indie and Brexit referendums.  I don’t see why people who aren’t ordinarily resident in the country and aren’t going to be affected by the outcome are entitled to vote.

The basic principle as far as I’m concerned is that an individual should only be eligible to vote if they’re liable to pay Income Tax in the country affected by the vote.

yeah makes sense for 4year team govt elections. 
 

but not permanent ones like indy \ brexit

sone folk live away temporarily 

likewise short term incomes shouldn’t have long term say in the matter

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7 hours ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

No, but you are correct to be wary if their brand of politics isn't for you.

Who will be negotiating Scotland's exit under Independence...to think it won't be the SNP front bench (as is) would be naïve in the extreme.

1st chair will be Michael Russell, they might try to make it look like is cross party by bringing in Harvie or Greer, but on the basis that the Greens have just hounded out one of their best in Wightman, a principled and bright man, for saying let' slow down on the whole trans thing. They would be firmly on the 'loony left' as you put it, side of things.

I'm sure Mike Russell retires this year. 

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9 hours ago, redone said:

I’ve never really understood the rationale behind any ex-pats being entitled to vote. And that applies to UK elections as well as Indie and Brexit referendums.  I don’t see why people who aren’t ordinarily resident in the country and aren’t going to be affected by the outcome are entitled to vote.

The basic principle as far as I’m concerned is that an individual should only be eligible to vote if they’re liable to pay Income Tax in the country affected by the vote.

No problem with this

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On 1/10/2021 at 5:35 PM, Bluto10 said:

yeah makes sense for 4year team govt elections. 
 

but not permanent ones like indy \ brexit

sone folk live away temporarily 

likewise short term incomes shouldn’t have long term say in the matter

 

On 1/10/2021 at 7:04 PM, Henry said:

^^^
Politics

LOL

Ehs trying tae break it gently tae hir....sucked eh life oot eh ????weans

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Good article:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/everything-falls-apart/

Seems like the taxpayer funded an illegal SNP witness coaching scheme also, the latest info in this scandal.

And look at Sturgeon resorting to disseminating sexist tropes via twitter bots, to try and save her greasy skin.

Over the years I have seen plenty of political incompetents and liars, but never - till now - a regime which has itself tried to imprison an innocent man.  Sturgeon's regime is all 3 of these things.

Voting for such a regime is immoral, as well as stupid.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Would it be less or more immoral than supporting and funding an organisation that has, on many occasions, overlooked its own members fucking wee boys? 

More immoral. 

(There is no real equivalent, of course.  People choose to support a malign, dishonest and corrupt regime - whereas I don't "choose" to support the Catholic Church, rather I *am* a Catholic)

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14 minutes ago, rocket_scientist said:

What's worse? That or covering up the buggering of minors?

Did you see the Oscar-winning Spotlight?

(i) both are repugnant: but no Catholic would ever vote for the buggering of minors, while some separatists *will* knowingly vote for a malign, dishonest and corrupt regime.  That is both immoral and stupid.

(ii) no.

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13 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

 

(There is no real equivalent, of course.  People choose to support a malign, dishonest and corrupt regime - whereas I don't "choose" to support the Catholic Church, rather I *am* a Catholic)

 

This statement just about sums up the majority of people I've met from Lanarkshire. Of course it's a choice!  The notion that you are somehow born a Protestant or Catholic - almost trying to equate it with something inherent like race - is utterly mental!  The whole thing is a complete fantasy!    

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Just now, Sonoftherock said:

 

This statement just about sums up the majority of people I've met from Lanarkshire. Of course it's a choice!  The notion that you are somehow born a Protestant or Catholic - almost trying to equate it with something like race - is utterly mental!  The whole thing is a complete fantasy!    

I see your point, but lets not distract from the main issue here, which is how could anyone vote for the current SNP regime in good conscience.

(as an aside, fundamental beliefs of any type are not really a choice - for example I could not just 'choose' to be an atheist).

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1 minute ago, Parklife said:

Stopped reading here. Tells me all I need to know about you. 

Do engage with the topic at hand Parky.  When your beloved regime is attacked, you immediately resort to casting up clerical abuse.  Is there really nothing you can find to say in Sturgeons defence?

Let's not forget, it wasn't that long ago that the SNP Cabinet attempted to make inroads to the "buggering teen boys" market itself.  Another string to their bow.

 

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7 minutes ago, Sonoftherock said:

 

This statement just about sums up the majority of people I've met from Lanarkshire. Of course it's a choice!  The notion that you are somehow born a Protestant or Catholic - almost trying to equate it with something inherent like race - is utterly mental!  The whole thing is a complete fantasy!    

Surely the fact they are born into and then indoctrinated into it should give them a clue that it's bullshit.  If they were so sure it was real they'd leave folk to decide for themselves once old enough.

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1 minute ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Do engage with the topic at hand Parky.  When your beloved regime is attacked, you immediately resort to casting up clerical abuse. 
 

"beloved regime"? No idea what that's meant to mean. 

I cast that up as your comment was so ridiculously over the top and implied you have a moral superiority over someone because they may in future vote for a different political party. This is hard to not laugh at coming from you, someone who's made excuses for some within the Catholic Church abusing children. 

1 minute ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Is there really nothing you can find to say in Sturgeons defence?

Why would I be defending it when I've said it looks like Salmond has been set up? 

1 minute ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Let's not forget, it wasn't that long ago that the SNP Cabinet attempted to make inroads to the "buggering teen boys" market itself.  Another string to their bow.

No idea what that's meant to mean? Are you referring to Derek McKay? Because he was sacked.

If he was a priest he'd just have been moved to a different position in the same organisation. 

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