The Mckenna Dilemma

[aberdeen1970]

Still trying to work out, bearing in mind I was born before the internet, how that was possible for him

He signed up to AFC chat, all excited, naming himself after his favourite Don after watching him lift the ecwc in the flesh on a wet but wonderful night in Gothenburg.

 

Full of the joys of spring he was, quickly notching up 37 posts, reminiscing with his fellow fans.

 

Then along came a young upstart who stole his moniker and started challenging fellow posters to post their photos so he could try to psychoanalyse them.

 

Ashamed to be confused with the doppelganger , he slipped back into the shadows for 12 years.

[Yorston Vasey]

He done a decent job defending against some decent Internationals when playing for Scotland & didn't look at all out of place.

Some of which were on way to World Cup.

 

Not bad for such a young loon.

 

Fk your £2m right in the pussy Swansea.

Unless they are will to loan us back a striker, midfielder & defender on to of the fee lol

Aye but none of that counts as it wasn't against a Greatest League The World Has Ever Seen team. Put in a decent shift for us in the Europa League against Boston United then the English types will sit up and take notice properly.

[Scotty_Toronto]

I admire your enthusiasm however that's not going to happen Scotty.

 

I hate being thought of of easy marks.

 

I'm suggesting that we show a spine and hold out for a record amount as a Scott McKenna doesn't come through our system every day.

 

We have to establish a precedence for when we sell our best.

 

When better than with this player?

 

You can be a right arsehole at times MT, Scotty might be a bit off here with valuations however he's nae a thick cunt.

 

there... their... they're...

 

Scotty knows what shoe size he is tbf MT.

 

An ass-kicking '12'.

 

Repeatedly misunderstands the point being made. Calls someone else a thick cunt.

 

Classic Millertime

 

Thank you.

 

If 100 lbs. of gold has a market value of nearly 2 million U.S. dollars then that's approx. what I would intend to get for it when I sell.

 

I'm not going to take a fifth of that value simply because I reside in Canada and am selling to someone in America.

 

Location has nothing to do with the value of the transaction.

 

Similarly, I wouldn't let an EPL team have McKenna on the cheap just because they exist in a league with barrow loads of TV money and they feel that their crumbs would be enough for us to let him go.

 

There'll be plenty of desperate teams in need of a solid stopper down South come this January window or the next.

 

It would be crazy to make any moves now and I'm confident that we won't.

 

Him being contracted till 2021 only adds to my argument.

[Scotty_Toronto]

You originally said why would we not get the same fee that Swansea 'a Huddersfield' for example will get when an even bigger club comes calling

 

I clearly explained why that was jibba jabba

 

No, I never said that.

 

I only referred to the present.

 

Here's what I said...

 

We shouldn't accept less for the SAME 'article'.

 

Why should (say) a Huddersfield be able to sell a McKenna for millions more than we can when he'd be the exact same thing in either location?

 

Not 'McKenna'... 'a McKenna'. (Get it?)

 

I was comparing apples to apples...

 

My comparison was between a 21 year old McKenna at Aberdeen and a 21 year old Scott McKenna at place like Huddersfield.

 

Why? Because McKenna will be just as good a player on his last day at Aberdeen as he would be on his first day at (say) a Huddersfield (yet a Huddersfield could own him for a day from us and command millions more. Why is that? Does that sound right?)

 

You then (comparing apples to oranges) went on about Ronaldo at 2 different stages of his career, 5 years apart, for some reason.

 

What are you, high?

 

Should Ronaldo have went to man Utd for same price as he went to Real?

 

No mate, I'm not high.

 

You didn't read and comprehend properly, and then you threw about insults.

 

I'll ask again...

 

How much would you let McKenna go for?

[G31DON]

It doesn't work like that though. Virgil Van Dyjk went for about 10 million after strolling through games without trying in Scotland and playing in champions league. He then proved he could cut it against the best strikers in a stronger league, when he had done that he moved up again with the huge transfer fee. The gold analogy is not the same.

I'd suggest he's worth around 4 million just now.

 

Edit - he's contacted until 2023 which is good news at least.

[Ke1t]

 

I hate being thought of of easy marks.

 

I'm suggesting that we show a spine and hold out for a record amount as a Scott McKenna doesn't come through our system every day.

 

We have to establish a precedence for when we sell our best.

 

When better than with this player?

 

 

there... their... they're...

 

 

An ass-kicking '12'.

 

 

Thank you.

 

If 100 lbs. of gold has a market value of nearly 2 million U.S. dollars then that's approx. what I would intend to get for it when I sell.

 

I'm not going to take a fifth of that value simply because I reside in Canada and am selling to someone in America.

 

Location has nothing to do with the value of the transaction.

 

Similarly, I wouldn't let an EPL team have McKenna on the cheap just because they exist in a league with barrow loads of TV money and they feel that their crumbs would be enough for us to let him go.

 

There'll be plenty of desperate teams in need of a solid stopper down South come this January window or the next.

 

It would be crazy to make any moves now and I'm confident that we won't.

 

Him being contracted till 2021 only adds to my argument.

 

Unfortunately that's kind of a weak analogy, given 100lbs of Gold has a standardised global market value.

 

If the UK wants to buy 100lbs of gold then they pay market value and get exactly what they're paying for. There isn't a chance that when the gold is physically shipped from the seller to the Bank of England that the gold will have a hard time adjusting to the type of gold there is in Britain and end up being a pile of lead worth $1 per lb rather than $1300 per lb.

 

You gets, as the kids say, what you pays for.

 

A star player in the League of Ireland, however, isn't necessarily going to translate into a star player in Serie A, so the tangible ability of a player isn't going to become apparent until after the transfer happens. So the interested club might offer a seemingly derisory sum, but bolstered by "If the player goes on to play X number of games etc" clauses.

 

The English, outside of Celtic and, bafflingly. Sevco, clearly believe Scottish football is barely a step above league of Ireland... so they're not going to lump in with a 5-10 million pound offer for a player who usually plays against the likes of Oakley or Moussa. A Scottish player who goes down to England these days is almost certainly going to be considered a squad player until such time as he's proven he's actually good, rather than made to look good by playing against shite.

[Scotty_Toronto]

The purpose of the gold analogy was to show how you wouldn't sell for less than you knew what it was worth, and how your location or your economy wouldn't have any bearing on it's value.

 

If gold is worth $1,241 an ounce, then it's worth $1,241 an ounce anywhere.

 

Virgil Van Dyjk went for about 10 million after strolling through games without trying in Scotland and playing in champions league.

 

So you wouldn't sell Scott McKenna for 2 million either (while he plays starting XI for the second best team in the SPFL, for Scotland, and in the Europa League?) Good.

 

He then proved he could cut it against the best strikers in a stronger league, when he had done that he moved up again with the huge transfer fee.

 

Cool, but again, I haven't commented (yet) on what Scott McKenna's future success or sell-on fee may or may not be (although I would hope for it to be very good if we were to cash in).

 

I'd suggest he's worth around 4 million just now.

 

If I were writing the script, the fee and the sell on would total over 10 million.

 

Edit - he's contacted until 2023 which is good news at least.

 

Yes, I stand corrected.

 

I remembered that we had him tied down the longest. Quickly searched Wiki to refresh and just didn't read far enough.

[G31DON]

He's not as good as van Dyjk and is much slower, nowhere near as good on the ball. Hasn't played in Europa never mind champions league so not sure where you're getting 10 million plus from.

[Scotty_Toronto]

A star player in the League of Ireland, however, isn't necessarily going to translate into a star player in Serie A, so the tangible ability of a player isn't going to become apparent until after the transfer happens. So the interested club might offer a seemingly derisory sum, but bolstered by "If the player goes on to play X number of games etc" clauses.

 

The English, outside of Celtic and, bafflingly. Sevco, clearly believe Scottish football is barely a step above league of Ireland... so they're not going to lump in with a 5-10 million pound offer for a player who usually plays against the likes of Oakley or Moussa. A Scottish player who goes down to England these days is almost certainly going to be considered a squad player until such time as he's proven he's actually good, rather than made to look good by playing against shite.

 

And of course, I understand and appreciate all that.

 

My point is that we can't afford to underestimate or under value our own young players potential simply based on what those in the EPL think.

 

We blew it by not identifying and tying down Ryan Fraser.

 

There's more than enough money down there for a fair fee and sell-on for McKenna.

 

I'd be surprised if we didn't get a solid 5m offer before the January window closes.

 

As FnD said, I'd rather lose out on the 2 million altogether (even if he didn't step up) than sell low now.

[Scotty_Toronto]

He's not as good as van Dyjk and is much slower, nowhere near as good on the ball. Hasn't played in Europa never mind champions league so not sure where you're getting 10 million plus from.

 

Keeping in mind that Van Dyjk is now 27 and that McKenna will be playing against EPL competition in the Europa League in 10 days time...

 

If I was writing the script?

 

There'd be a solid multi-million pound offer (5m?) for McKenna before the January window closes and the eventual sell-on would bring the whole deal to over 10m.

[Ke1t]

 

And of course, I understand and appreciate all that.

 

My point is that we can't afford to underestimate or under value our own young players potential simply based on what those in the EPL think.

 

We blew it by not identifying and tying down Ryan Fraser.

 

There's more than enough money down there for a fair fee and sell-on for McKenna.

 

I'd be surprised if we didn't get a solid 5m offer before the January window closes.

 

As FnD said, I'd rather lose out on the 2 million altogether (even if he didn't step up) than sell low now.

 

I think you're wildly optimistic on the value that can be attached to an Aberdeen player, but to be fair you're not the only one... I would be more than astounded if any bids of over 3 million in cash came in for McKenna (and only then because of his length of contract still to run).

 

The gold analogy, I'm going to continue to disagree with you here. The value of gold is a universal constant both in market price and material composition. It's value isn't based upon localised markets or circumstances. The value of a player, particularly a young player... is an unknown quantity, and coming from a market where prices are depressed because the quality is perceived to be third rate (and it is, to be honest) is not a constant that can be relied upon.

 

If you're looking to buy McKenna you're going to have a lot of questions that need to be answered before potentially pissing 5 million quid against the wall.

 

What has he actually done in football aside from captain a third rate team to a defeat against a second rate side in a meaningless friendly?

 

Is he any better than the standard of young defender available down south to warrant a gamble of more than 2 or 3 million quid?

 

What's the standard of player he's playing against that make him look so good? If he's playing against third rate shite he can be second rate and still look good, but is 5-10 million a realistic price to pay for someone who, at best, is going to cover for a faster, stronger, more experienced first choice defender in England?

 

Why would you, a buyer, pay an inflated price in a market where players transfer around for free, or tens of thousands? McKenna might be a cut above with a ton of potential, but a cut above the shite that plays in the SPFL is hardly the realms of a 5 or even 10 million pound player. And potential is only that. Potential.

 

Players who hang around Aberdeen, or Scottish football in general, more often than not fail to live up to their potential. The quality of Scottish football is not amenable to the development of good players. It could be argued that any potential in McKenna is more likely to be realised by a club outside of Scotland. The point being, if we DON'T sell him for the 3 million I suspect is his upper limit in terms of transfer fees then we run the very real risk of him stagnating and being worth fuck all come the end of his contract.

 

So, do we sell him when an offer approaching 3 million come is... assuming it ever does, which is by no means assured... or do we hang onto him and run the risk of developing him into the sort of very average player that Scotland produces these days, and maybe get a half a million a few years down the road?

 

This is a hypothetical argument, very well made by me... so I can understand if anyone reads this and thinks I'm stating this as fact, so fucking compelling is my argument. I would say to those people, remember, this is just an opinion... don't get all angry in the head at my opinion because I'm not fucking interested in your whiny bullshit.

 

Anyway... sell him now for all the cash we can get, or gamble on holding out for the Big Bucks™ and risk getting Fuck All™

 

Given Aberdeen's track record of developing youth I know which course of action I'd go with.

 

Fuck me... I think I just agreed with the Stewarty Milne School of Getting What You Can While You Can.

 

Bugger.

[HairyPie]

Sell the cunt and give everyone a free pie for the first ten home games.

[euan2020]

And what, you think mckenna would just sit and stagnate at Swansea?

He would improve in the same style Ronaldo did you bloody simpleton

 

whataboutery - you are now onto something different than you said before

 

smarter than you, you fool

[euan2020]

There was no "point"

Was a basic failure to understand why players go for higher fees the better they get

 

which wasn't the point

 

the point was - the same player with same experience @ same point in time, but being sold by 2 different clubs ie today 16th July 18 being sold by Aberdeen or being sold by an English club including championship, league one etc ............ & you are running round calling everyone else stupid

[aberdeen1970]

The truth will be somewhere in the middle. We'll accept an initial bid which will be lower than most of us would like but will insert a sell on fee in the hope of capitalising on any future improvement at a later date if he moves on. Like Andy Robertson, Van Dijk etc.

 

The worst thing we could do is to sell him now in a panic because we don't seem to be getting the players in this window that we originally wanted. If he was going to go this summer he should have went at the start of the window when we could have used any money reinvested in the squad on the main targets which according to McInnes "we couldn't get over the line". No point using any extra cash for loan fees, that's just a waste in the long run.

 

Any bid over £2m (with potential add-ons) will be seriously considered by the board though I would have thought. Unfortunately.

[aberdeen1970]

Sorry, double post.

[V for Vendetta]

Young centre backs go to EPL teams for £20m and more now.

 

Millertime's correct to an extent that we simply won't be able to get that for McKenna but I do themink we should be looking for about half of what he might go for in 2 years.

 

£8-10m should be the target.

 

Suspect the club would sell him for about £4m sadly.

 

Which is nothing nowadays in the English market. That's a few clubs pay for absolute shite or a complete has been.

[Reliablesource]

'Millertime's' correct to an extent that we simply won't be able to get that for McKenna but I do 'themink' we should be looking for about half of what he might go for in 2 years.

Freudian slip?

[spamspamspam]

McGinn is average at best, Hibs want £4m for him with a year left on his contract. He's only played a couple more premiership games than McKenna and McKenna is a much better prospect than McGinn with far longer left on his contract.

 

Anything less than £5m with add ons is underselling him.

[dj_bollocks]

Virgil Van Dyk who may still be the most expensive defender in the world, (according to Transfermarkt) was sold by Celtic for approx £14 million quid (+ add ons) in 2015 having played nearly 10,000 minutes for the club over 115 matches. He played 6 Champions League matches, as well as 13 Champs League Qualifying matches, 8 Europa League matches (not qualifiers).

 

Scott McKenna has played 38 first team matches playing just over 3,000 minutes for Aberdeen none of which have been in Europe...

 

If we got £3 million quid for him + add ons we'd be doing particularly well...

 

 

Source.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/virgil-van-dijk/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/139208

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scott-mckenna/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/255906

[Tord31]

Virgil Van Dyk who may still be the most expensive defender in the world, (according to Transfermarkt) was sold by Celtic for approx £14 million quid (+ add ons) in 2015 having played nearly 10,000 minutes for the club over 115 matches. He played 6 Champions League matches, as well as 13 Champs League Qualifying matches, 8 Europa League matches (not qualifiers).

 

Scott McKenna has played 38 first team matches playing just over 3,000 minutes for Aberdeen none of which have been in Europe...

 

If we got £3 million quid for him + add ons we'd be doing particularly well...

 

 

Source.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/virgil-van-dijk/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/139208

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scott-mckenna/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/255906

 

I'd take a deal like that from an EPL club with a promise of a friendly match (probably worth a few hundred thousand £ to us if it was a decent EPL team) and two or three loanees over the following couple of years.

[euan2020]

Virgil Van Dyk who may still be the most expensive defender in the world, (according to Transfermarkt) was sold by Celtic for approx £14 million quid (+ add ons) in 2015 having played nearly 10,000 minutes for the club over 115 matches. He played 6 Champions League matches, as well as 13 Champs League Qualifying matches, 8 Europa League matches (not qualifiers).

 

Scott McKenna has played 38 first team matches playing just over 3,000 minutes for Aberdeen none of which have been in Europe...

 

If we got £3 million quid for him + add ons we'd be doing particularly well...

 

 

Source.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/virgil-van-dijk/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/139208

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scott-mckenna/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/255906

I would agree with you - with the qualification that Premiership Teams now have more money to spend than 2015 - think around 60% more money

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/385002/premier-league-tv-rights-revenue/

 

really difficult to benchmark - could use Aluko as an example

 

Angus Gunn could be another example - 46 Championship games and he has went for 13.5 Million

[V for Vendetta]

Freudian slip?

Fuck knows- it's a hell of a typo!

[Scotty_Toronto]

I think you're wildly optimistic on the value that can be attached to an Aberdeen player...

 

It's bad enough that the EPL does that to us, but how are we going to become a top 100 team in Europe if we're going to do it to ourselves as well?

 

Older players, yes, but not young players coming through on such a rise.

 

The gold analogy, I'm going to continue to disagree with you here. The value of gold is a universal constant both in market price and material composition. It's value isn't based upon localised markets or circumstances. The value of a player, particularly a young player... is an unknown quantity, and coming from a market where prices are depressed because the quality is perceived to be third rate (and it is, to be honest) is not a constant that can be relied upon.

 

It's difficult to find a perfect analogy, however, the point is to understand the point (which I'm sure you do).

 

If you're looking to buy McKenna you're going to have a lot of questions that need to be answered before potentially pissing 5 million quid against the wall.

 

The EPL regularly pisses away 5m in their sleep.

 

What has he actually done in football aside from captain a third rate team to a defeat against a second rate side in a meaningless friendly?

 

As already stated...

 

- named always in the AFC starting 11

- selected for national team

- selected as captain of the national team

- goal of the year

 

All in his first 25 game season.

 

Is he any better than the standard of young defender available down south to warrant a gamble of more than 2 or 3 million quid?

 

Yes, I genuinely believe that he is easily worth more than that.

 

What's the standard of player he's playing against that make him look so good? If he's playing against third rate shite he can be second rate and still look good, but is 5-10 million a realistic price to pay for someone who, at best, is going to cover for a faster, stronger, more experienced first choice defender in England?

 

I'm confident that he'd be a starter in (at least) the Championship as they are already looking for replacements and he's been targeted as such.

 

Why would you, a buyer, pay an inflated price in a market where players transfer around for free, or tens of thousands? McKenna might be a cut above with a ton of potential, but a cut above the shite that plays in the SPFL is hardly the realms of a 5 or even 10 million pound player. And potential is only that. Potential.

 

Come January, there'll be loads of jobs on the line, and more than a few teams marked for a relegation battle, so yes, they'll splash the cash.

 

Any bid over £2m (with potential add-ons) will be seriously considered by the board though I would have thought. Unfortunately.

 

Our attitude to being grateful for EPL crumbs has to change.

[Scotty_Toronto]

Young centre backs go to EPL teams for £20m and more now.

 

Thank you!

 

£8-10m should be the target.

 

It really should.

 

Suspect the club would sell him for about £4m sadly.

 

Which is nothing nowadays in the English market. That's a few clubs pay for absolute shite or a complete has been.

 

Yes. I keep saying that.

[Scotty_Toronto]

McGinn is average at best, Hibs want £4m for him with a year left on his contract. He's only played a couple more premiership games than McKenna and McKenna is a much better prospect than McGinn with far longer left on his contract.

 

Anything less than £5m with add ons is underselling him.

 

It would be.

 

Scott McKenna has played 38 first team matches playing just over 3,000 minutes for Aberdeen none of which have been in Europe...

 

If we got £3 million quid for him + add ons we'd be doing particularly well...

 

Both McInnes and McKenna agree that the best way forward for him would be to get 100-150 first team games under his belt, and since he's contracted till 2023, lets wait and do a re-evaluation in January.

[craegDAMH]

There is a bunch of reasons why Scott McKenna would attract a lower valuation because he's an Aberdeen player than he would be if he came through at Huddersfield, for an EPL buyer. Fantasy land stuff to suggest this is not the case.

 

That's not to say we sell him for £2m, but expecting prices paid in a totally different market is lunacy

[SheepieBaaBaa]

There is a bunch of reasons why Scott McKenna would attract a lower valuation because he's an Aberdeen player than he would be if he came through at Huddersfield, for an EPL buyer. Fantasy land stuff to suggest this is not the case.

 

That's not to say we sell him for £2m, but expecting prices paid in a totally different market is lunacy

 

If Scottish clubs accept pitiful offers, they will continue to receive pitiful offers.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

There is a bunch of reasons why Scott McKenna would attract a lower valuation because he's an Aberdeen player than he would be if he came through at Huddersfield, for an EPL buyer. Fantasy land stuff to suggest this is not the case.

 

That's not to say we sell him for £2m, but expecting prices paid in a totally different market is lunacy

 

If Scottish clubs accept pitiful offers, they will continue to receive pitiful offers.

 

It is not different market. It is a market for football talent and potential.

 

Last time I checked it was the same game, same rules and sane physical attributes for success.

[V for Vendetta]

If Scottish clubs accept pitiful offers, they will continue to receive pitiful offers.

 

It is not different market. It is a market for football talent and potential.

 

Last time I checked it was the same game, same rules and sane physical attributes for success.

 

That one word is what most of the money is spent on.

 

McKenna isn't 26 and just finding his feet.

 

He's 21 and a full international (looking comfortable as that too)

 

The lad has huge potential, the potential to be worth a huge amount of money in a couple of years - exactly why we shouldn't sell him on the cheap right now.