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Henry

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1 hour ago, Sonoftherock said:

Think Parklife is obviously taking a lot because he was the biggest proponent for the lockdown measures on this forum.

I certainly backed the lockdown measures myself initially, and have been quite smug that we've been sitting pretty in our covid-free bubble!

However, the way things are going, I'm starting to change my opinion.  The events in Melbourne and Auckland, and the governments response to them, really worried me.  This passage from the swedish article sums things up.

The issue we have in New Zealand & Australia, is that our response to any outbreak, regardless of the scale, is a quite draconian lockdown.  In WA we have the hard border closure too!  My worry is that as soon as these are relaxed, we'll see a spike of cases - then we'll be back into a brutal lockdown.  If this keeps happening, every time we attempt to relax restrictions, we are going to be battling Covid19 for many months, if not years to come... meanwhile the rest of the world will be back to normal.

There is massive public backing for the border closures over here.  The support our local government has received for this means no one is going to be leaving or entering our state for a very, very long time!  A lot of it is fuelled by parochialism - I was a bit caught up in it by myself, but really worried we're now going to be facing this continual 'relax restrictions, then back-into-lock down' pattern for some time...  basically no one in our state of >2M people has been exposed to this virus yet. 

Welcome to what eh have said all along.

McGowan is loving this. All that shite with Palmer has shown him up to be power mad.

Would not be surprised in the least if there is an “outbreak” in the next week or so. 

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15 minutes ago, BrianFaePerth said:

Welcome to what eh have said all along.

McGowan is loving this. All that shite with Palmer has shown him up to be power mad.

Would not be surprised in the least if there is an “outbreak” in the next week or so. 

Fair enough - I'm starting to think you'll be proved right.

If there is 'an outbreak' here... the response will be draconian - that is almost guaranteed.  Full lockdown is certain.

Your average West Australian is loving this... they are mainly loving lording it over folk from the eastern states.

I don't think McGowan is power crazy per se... he's just a politician, that's what they do.  He is in an immense position of strength - there probably isn't politician anywhere else on the planet who is more popular right now.  He's being celebrated as a hero - I've never seen anything like it.  if you are McGowan, why wouldn't you ride that wave?

The more he pushes for the hard border and fights to keep WA closed, the further his popularity is rising... 

Even if it becomes blindingly obvious that lockdown is the wrong solution to the problem, it is going to be really hard to change opinions.  Its a depressing outlook, but I think we are in for a really difficult 12 months to come... makes a big difference to lapping up our freedoms, while the rest of the civilised world were in lockdown!

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What’s been seen here and in europe is that the second lockdown is worse than the first. The politicians know they can get away with it.

here we are at 120 odd days covid free and the WA feds and politicians are warning to expect lockdown. There are strong whispers in the health sector of a need to be ready.

why now? Because some place thousands of kilometres away got a few cases?

But you’re right, the easiest way to annoy a sandgroper is to question the wisdom of McGowan or the border strategy. Folk whose lives have been fucked by the decisions almost have to apologise for pointing out their predicaments.

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6 minutes ago, BrianFaePerth said:

What’s been seen here and in europe is that the second lockdown is worse than the first. The politicians know they can get away with it.

here we are at 120 odd days covid free and the WA feds and politicians are warning to expect lockdown. There are strong whispers in the health sector of a need to be ready.

why now? Because some place thousands of kilometres away got a few cases?

But you’re right, the easiest way to annoy a sandgroper is to question the wisdom of McGowan or the border strategy. Folk whose lives have been fucked by the decisions almost have to apologise for pointing out their predicaments.

I think there will multiple lock downs if we follow the Auckland and Melbourne model of locking down every time 4 or 5 new cases emerge... it will be endless.

One of my mates works for the WA government and they are preparing for going into lockdown right now.... think it's being seen an inevitable at some point in the future, regardless of whether Palmer wins his case or not...  In some ways waiting for this to hit us, is worse than actually being in the midst.  We see Melbourne and auckland suffering... and we know it's coming for us!  if it hits us this summer at least you have a swimming pool!!

Have a nice weekend! ?

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14 minutes ago, Sonoftherock said:

I think there will multiple lock downs if we follow the Auckland and Melbourne model of locking down every time 4 or 5 new cases emerge... it will be endless.

One of my mates works for the WA government and they are preparing for going into lockdown right now.... think it's being seen an inevitable at some point in the future, regardless of whether Palmer wins his case or not...  In some ways waiting for this to hit us, is worse than actually being in the midst.  We see Melbourne and auckland suffering... and we know it's coming for us!  if it hits us this summer at least you have a swimming pool!!

Have a nice weekend! ?

We’ve fully stocked freezers and plenty of bog roll after a shopping trip last week.

We’re not going to be fighting in the aisles of Woolies.

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2 hours ago, Sonoftherock said:

Think Parklife is obviously taking a lot because he was the biggest proponent for the lockdown measures on this forum.

Not sure I feel that's an accurate representation. 

Id have rathered that it was taken seriously at the outset. We could see this coming in January (at the latest) yet our governments appeared to do nothing in the way of building a track and trace system. Put no measures in place to limit the spread and generally were wilfully ignorant to both the public health and economic threats of this. 

A serious attitude taken could've seen an early encouraging of physical distancing, an early encouraging of mask wearing in enclosed spaces, extra precautions put in place in work places, a strategy for keeping care homes Covid free developed.

Instead we done very little. We had a PM who, in mid-March went on tv and boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and how he would keep doing it FFS. 

We therefore got to a stage where the virus was at such high levels that we had little option but to introduce some kind of lockdown measures. Unfortunately, these were still introduced a couple of weeks too late and, as a result, have went on for way longer than we'd all have hoped. 

Other countries haven't had anything like what the UK has because they took it seriously and focussed on containing it. Korea and Japan have had pretty much no lockdown and have controlled it far better (although Japan over the last month appears to be struggling and is posting similar new daily case numbers per capita to England). The businesses, including pubs and restaurants have all stayed open throughout in these places. There will be a serious economic impact still but that's going to be inevitable and will happen in every country on earth unfortunately. It really is about the best strategy for minimising that and the health impacts. A do nothing "Herd-immunity" approach like many advocated would be the worst of all world imo; higher body count, more people with chronic long lasting affects and a horrendous economic decline - sick people don't go to work and produce. 

It didn't have to be like it has been in the UK, we chose that way with our arrogance that we would be different. I'd like to think we'd learn but unfortunately, as a nation, we lack humility and the ability to see ourselves as others see us. 
 

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21 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Not sure I feel that's an accurate representation. 

Id have rathered that it was taken seriously at the outset. We could see this coming in January (at the latest) yet our governments appeared to do nothing in the way of building a track and trace system. Put no measures in place to limit the spread and generally were wilfully ignorant to both the public health and economic threats of this. 

A serious attitude taken could've seen an early encouraging of physical distancing, an early encouraging of mask wearing in enclosed spaces, extra precautions put in place in work places, a strategy for keeping care homes Covid free developed.

Instead we done very little. We had a PM who, in mid-March went on tv and boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients and how he would keep doing it FFS. 

We therefore got to a stage where the virus was at such high levels that we had little option but to introduce some kind of lockdown measures. Unfortunately, these were still introduced a couple of weeks too late and, as a result, have went on for way longer than we'd all have hoped. 

Other countries haven't had anything like what the UK has because they took it seriously and focussed on containing it. Korea and Japan have had pretty much no lockdown and have controlled it far better (although Japan over the last month appears to be struggling and is posting similar new daily case numbers per capita to England). The businesses, including pubs and restaurants have all stayed open throughout in these places. There will be a serious economic impact still but that's going to be inevitable and will happen in every country on earth unfortunately. It really is about the best strategy for minimising that and the health impacts. A do nothing "Herd-immunity" approach like many advocated would be the worst of all world imo; higher body count, more people with chronic long lasting affects and a horrendous economic decline - sick people don't go to work and produce. 

It didn't have to be like it has been in the UK, we chose that way with our arrogance that we would be different. I'd like to think we'd learn but unfortunately, as a nation, we lack humility and the ability to see ourselves as others see us. 
 

 

Agree with higher body count... this is something that has happened in countries like Sweden.  The majority of these folk had one foot in the grave already though!  Would be interesting to see the stats for people under the age of 65, who were not already ill.  Your other points... hmmm I'm not sure!  Our (australia) economy is going to be seriously screwed if these sporadic lock-downs keep choke the life out of us... and it continues for months to come.  While Sweden is recovering already, we will be slowly suffocating - and our final recovery will be far longer!

The chronic long-lasting effects of the disease?  This is something that annoys me.  There is no evidence of this.  Fundamentally, there has been no long studies, because this is a new disease!  It's pure scaremongering, which the cynic within me believes is being peddled by lock-down supporters, who are now trying to save face!  It reminds of the brass eye sketch where Dr Fox is caught out.... 

 

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1 minute ago, Sonoftherock said:

The chronic long-lasting effects of the disease?  This is something that annoys me.  There is no evidence of this.  Fundamentally, there has been no long studies, because this is a new disease!  It's pure scaremongering, 

There's no evidence of people with severe and permanent lung damage? 

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29 minutes ago, Parklife said:

There's no evidence of people with severe and permanent lung damage? 

Any strain of flu can damage your lungs - incredibly severely too!   With Coronavirus, it needs a proper study before drawing any conclusions.  Some reports of doctors saying folk are presenting in much greater numbers, with problems such as lung scarring/etc... needs to be quantified in a number of respects.

Outlandish claims are being made, without much more than circumstantial evidence.  My opinion is that this type of talk is pure scaremongering at this stage.  It's obviously important to be cautious with a novel virus... but it is apparent to me that this POV is being peddled by those with an agenda.  

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There is a helluva lot of scaremongering going on though. 

Headlines today of R rate being above 1 in Scotland.  Folk start pissing themselves about it. 

However the R rate (Sturgeon mentioned this yesterday) isnt as accurate  or reliable when the numbers are as low as they are in Scotland overall. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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National records Scotland covid death stats show only 2 (TWO!!!!!) people under 45 with no underlying medical conditions have died as a result of the virus, basically shows that it's safe for young healthy people to go about their business as normal. Wonder how many under 45's have had their lives turned upside down by the lockdowns, how many jobs lost, businesses ruined, mental health issues, education missed, It's scary that people have been conned by their government into blindly following the advice, even the most blinkered out there must see that only the old and vulnerable needed protecting, we've seen the economy wrecked by weak government over reacting to the scamdemic. Full public enquiry into the handling of it will need done.

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8 minutes ago, daytripping said:

National records Scotland covid death stats show only 2 (TWO!!!!!) people under 45 with no underlying medical conditions have died as a result of the virus, basically shows that it's safe for young healthy people to go about their business as normal. Wonder how many under 45's have had their lives turned upside down by the lockdowns, how many jobs lost, businesses ruined, mental health issues, education missed, It's scary that people have been conned by their government into blindly following the advice, even the most blinkered out there must see that only the old and vulnerable needed protecting, we've seen the economy wrecked by weak government over reacting to the scamdemic. Full public enquiry into the handling of it will need done.

Can you show us these stats, please? 

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1 minute ago, daytripping said:

I suggest you go to the NRS site if you're doubting me.

You didn't get it from there though did you?  You've just done a wee copy and paste off facebook without checking to see if it's true.

 

Anyways if we are to just live with it and let everyone under 45 run wild the NHS will be over run very quickly and the deaths will pile up, look at this cluster now over 900 close contacts contacted and told to isolate, I know for a face that quite a few in that cluster aren't, just hope none of them actually have it cos what they are doing is spreading it and putting lives at risk.

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The primary purpose of lockdown was to stop hospitals being overwhelmed. Is there anywhere in the country where this is still an issue? Cases are rising because of a general easing of measures in social venues and the vast majority of these are under 45 who don't typically present severe symptoms. Is it necessary to put peoples lives on hold again because a few folk have a temperature or a cough or canna taste their rowies? If the rise was being reflected in new admissions or deaths then by all means but it just isn't anymore and unfortunately like all viruses it will affect some worse than others or exacerbate pre-existing conditions.

Interesting article on the bbc today:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

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11 minutes ago, minijc said:

You didn't get it from there though did you?  You've just done a wee copy and paste off facebook without checking to see if it's true.

 

Anyways if we are to just live with it and let everyone under 45 run wild the NHS will be over run very quickly and the deaths will pile up, look at this cluster now over 900 close contacts contacted and told to isolate, I know for a face that quite a few in that cluster aren't, just hope none of them actually have it cos what they are doing is spreading it and putting lives at risk.

Yet hospital admissions are still falling even in cluster hotspots, I read an article about the North of England clusters today, cases rising but admissions still falling, those facts don't tie up with your over run comment. The press all week has been full of appeals for people to start using doctors and hospitals again as they're quiet.

I've checked the stats from the graph off facebook with the NRS site, pretty easy to do in a couple of minutes, the graph is correct.

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2 minutes ago, daytripping said:

Yet hospital admissions are still falling even in cluster hotspots, I read an article about the North of England clusters today, cases rising but admissions still falling, those facts don't tie up with your over run comment. The press all week has been full of appeals for people to start using doctors and hospitals again as they're quiet.

I've checked the stats from the graph off facebook with the NRS site, pretty easy to do in a couple of minutes, the graph is correct.

Hospital admissions take time, in most cases those that contract the virus that eventually needs hospital treatment have the virus for a few weeks then from there it can takes weeks, if not months for a person to die from it, you and moobs seem to want people to get it and die instantly before you treat it as something serious. 

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Just now, minijc said:

Hospital admissions take time, in most cases those that contract the virus that eventually needs hospital treatment have the virus for a few weeks then from there it can takes weeks, if not months for a person to die from it, you and moobs seem to want people to get it and die instantly before you treat it as something serious. 

Also, the people in the original clusters are generally young people. i.e. folk out in the pubs and kids at school. Once those people spread it to the older generation and/or those at risk, then you'll see the hospital admissions. 

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