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Henry

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Just now, rocket_scientist said:

Oh Christ. That again. Let's not go there.

On an aside, do you blame capitalism for your own position in life?

No, quite the contrary. I grew up middle class and was afforded many opportunities others wouldn't have been. 
 

If you're talking in terms of my salary, that's the kind of salary most the world earns, if not considerably less, so if I'm to view my position in the world as something to be ashamed of, then so will billions of others. 

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Just now, rocket_scientist said:

I think your Marxist Communist whatever the fuck ideology - remember the discussion about idealists? - is the only freakshow around here. 

Bet you've got a right sweaty back right now typing this all out. 
 

Found yourself out of work? 
 

Lot of spare time on your hands. 

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Just now, Millertime said:

We aren't saying "they are old anyway " we are pointing out that the av age of death is 82 and its deaths that so happen to have a positive test (from an unreliable testing method) within 28 days of dying

Ie, these people would have died anyway 

And I'll reiterate the point, the virus will have sped the death up. People are losing valuable time with terminal loved ones over this. 
 

It's not that they "so happen" to have a positive test, the reason they include that information is  because its likely COVID mixed with the other health issues they had going on killed them. The same way the flu does when it spreads through hospitals. In other words, COVID was a factor in their death, that can't just be ignored. 
 

However, only one of those illnesses we have a reliable vaccine for. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Right, so schools (that don't affect you) should close, but you and your pals are ok meeting up?

Gotcha

In fairness when I attended house parties it wasn't during lockdown. 
 

I also explained earlier my reasoning and how flawed it was, but you probably won't read it as it's over a few sentences. 
 

 

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25 minutes ago, rocket_scientist said:

Never been out of work. Yes my time is my own.

 

26 minutes ago, rocket_scientist said:

Salary? Who the fuck focuses on that? Your "position in life" being anti capitalist. This is at odds with human nature. Only losers seek to deny human nature, often those who feel downtrodden for reasons they won't admit to. We failed to agree at the time but a free market AND a welfare state IS possible. Social justice should be more important than anything else and if that was enshrined - not just in law (corrupt) but actually in the hearts and minds of the political classes - then the markets would serve us all the best. 

Capitalism is at odds with human nature. The fact you've drank that much of the Kool-Aid tells me you're not as free a thinker as you think. 
 

A free market and welfare state aren't possible, those two things are at odds with eachother. We currently have a free market and a welfare state that doesn't function well. What ends up happening is the necessary functions of the welfare state, whether it's health, transport etc, then have to compete with rivals in the private sector. This then results in cost cutting measures etc in the welfare state, meaning the citizens of whatever country, aren't getting the attention/services needed. You see it now with the NHS. You see it now with rail being privatised and costing a fortune. The English pay for their water FFS. 
 

Edit; 

Not only are they competing with the private sector, but will inevitably have to trade with it. This results again, in cut price deals, things being sold off, things having to be up for sale. 

It just can't work. 
 

 

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2 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

So do we,  your water rates are on your council tax bill. 

At a fixed price dependant on your band. Not one based upon how often you use it. 

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1 minute ago, Millertime said:

We pay for our water too m8

I think you need to go and do some revision 

Again you've not read. 
 

English water is privatised, ours isn't. We pay a fixed rate of tax for it, they pay as they consume. Which is ridiculous. 

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2 minutes ago, Millertime said:

How do you know the virus sped things up?

1 percent of the population dies every year

When you know the average age of death with this is 82, it doesn't sound very "sped up" to me

Holy fuck. 
 

Can't do it. 
 

Someone else, anyone else, please. 

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4 minutes ago, Millertime said:

No need for the attitude

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy in your argument, thats all

You seem quite naive

Its not hypocritical at all. I've explained at length my reasoning. 
 

Gee it a rest frunkie

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6 minutes ago, Millertime said:

We pay for our water too m8

I think you need to go and do some revision 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/21/englands-running-out-of-water-and-privatisation-is-to-blame
 

Had to go find this. 
 

We pay for it, aye, but it goes to our local councils, as another form of tax. 
 

They pay for it like it's a product, which is a totally different set of problems. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

No, quite the contrary. I grew up middle class and was afforded many opportunities others wouldn't have been. 
 

If you're talking in terms of my salary, that's the kind of salary most the world earns, if not considerably less, so if I'm to view my position in the world as something to be ashamed of, then so will billions of others. 

Did you?

 

Define middle class in your context here. This’ll be a laugh. The Aberdonian middle class. 

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20 minutes ago, The Boofon said:

Did you?

 

Define middle class in your context here. This’ll be a laugh. The Aberdonian middle class. 

Went to public school. Never went without, generally got the things I needed. For Christmas I got the things I asked Santa for, that kind of thing. 
 

My parents were able to afford to pay my rent whilst I was a student. I was able to get a foot I needed an operation on, privately. We went on holiday once a year generally, I was afforded the experience of living in a foreign country. 

Those are just some things that I can think of that would make me middle class, also the size of our house, the Labrador retrievers etc etc. Just ordinary and plain middle class things. Essentially, we were never worried about money growing up. Luckily. 

 

Im aware and fortunate to have been given that start in life. 

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2 minutes ago, Millertime said:

I want to like you, I genuinely do

I see a lot of synergies with your strength in views ,I just think you are all over the place

I disagree. It's also incredibly difficult to articulate the full weight of your own thought on a football forum amongst faceless strangers, many of whom are replying and picking different things you've said to go over. Undoubtedly, I'll not give a good enough answer some of the time. 
 

But, if you look through my posts I think you'll see they are fairly consistent in terms of what I'm trying to say. 

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1 minute ago, Millertime said:

Well  yeah, apart from wanting schools to shut to stop transmission, yet openly admitting you have house parties 

I wouldn't say that's hypocritical, because I admitted it was poor judgment from myself. 
 

Now, if I said "schools should close and I don't give a fuck about the fact I've been to a few house parties" that would be hypocritical. 
 

As an aside, it's apples and oranges. Me (someone who works 40 hour weeks in a place with hundreds of people) going to 2 parties with under 10 people, on isolated occasions, isn't comparable to a school being open for full days involving thousands of kids...

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15 minutes ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

I wouldn't say that's hypocritical, because I admitted it was poor judgment from myself. 
 

Now, if I said "schools should close and I don't give a fuck about the fact I've been to a few house parties" that would be hypocritical. 
 

As an aside, it's apples and oranges. Me (someone who works 40 hour weeks in a place with hundreds of people) going to 2 parties with under 10 people, on isolated occasions, isn't comparable to a school being open for full days involving thousands of kids...

I will actually make a point on the school thing.  

I guess it is where you place it on the essential business list.  You're earlier points accepted that essential business should continue.  Education is in essence a business, just government funded.  Along with food, health services and energy, you are really struggling to find something more essential.  

Where guidance needs to be changed is not necessarily in closing schools but finding ways where remote teaching can be used more where possible.  Higher education that doesn't require practical teaching should be straightforward to do this.  Teaching is largely in lecture format, with little interaction.  Secondary education you could perhaps manage to a degree though it will adversely affect those who struggle with it the most.  Primary or lower a lot more difficult, given the interactivity of learning at those levels.  

It is a shitshow, but at a government level you are really looking at a situation of trade-offs, and in the most simplified view it is two cases.

Case 1 - Keep schools open within a wider lockdown, allowing for education to continue at a higher level than remote learning as well as keeping economic activity ticking over at a higher level but seeing an uptick in Covid prevalence and a higher (but perhaps manageable) level of deaths which are mainly in the older demographic.

Case 2 - Shut down schools, causing a reduction in educational attainment (at a guess impacting those from more deprived backgrounds more so than others), while reducing economic activity to work towards a lower level of Covid prevalence and a lower level of deaths.

Two crappy choices, but one that governments around the globe are looking at just now.  There is no right answer.  Most will have a view that suits their own selfish needs.

As much as the public health experts crow on about better solutions, they are looking at it from one angle.  Reducing prevalence/deaths.  No other impacts.    

If there was one area that we should have zoned in on without a doubt, it was severely curtailing international travel.  At no point has there been any proper ban on it within the UK until now, when we become the epicentre of the new Covid variant and everyone banned us going anywhere, for the timebeing.  I guess the benefits of it being found in a more transparent country or whatever...  But back to the point, what is the point in any lockdown measures if anyone can venture in or out of the country as they see fit and the only real control being a severely under-monitored self-quarantine request?  The idea that kids continue to have a shitter version of their school-life while people were still jetting off on all-inclusive holidays in the Balaerics/Canaies really doesn't stack up.    

 

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50 minutes ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

I wouldn't say that's hypocritical, because I admitted it was poor judgment from myself. 
 

Now, if I said "schools should close and I don't give a fuck about the fact I've been to a few house parties" that would be hypocritical. 
 

As an aside, it's apples and oranges. Me (someone who works 40 hour weeks in a place with hundreds of people) going to 2 parties with under 10 people, on isolated occasions, isn't comparable to a school being open for full days involving thousands of kids...

This guy is either a fool or he is trolling you .

Now as I doubt anybody can be this stupid I reckon he must be trolling you lot.

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21 minutes ago, Joe pike said:

This guy is either a fool or he is trolling you .

Now as I doubt anybody can be this stupid I reckon he must be trolling you lot.

I can tell by the few posts you make, you're not very smart. Your latest suggestion that Sturgeon (who isn't involved in Brexit talks) has used the virus to delay the exit from the EU, confirms this. 

 

Thats alright though, I don't have to speak to absolutely with everybody.

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2 minutes ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

I can tell by the few posts you make, you're not very smart. Your latest suggestion that Sturgeon (who isn't involved in Brexit talks) has used the virus to delay the exit from the EU, confirms this. 

 

Thats alright though, I don't have to speak to absolutely with everybody.

Actually I have changed my mind.

He might be that stupid.

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