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Coronavirus


Henry

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4 minutes ago, rocket_scientist said:

Child 3/daughter 2 lived at Murano Halls in her first year, aye 48 years ago it seems given that she was a student so long. They were pretty shit flats I thought. Living there without drink or drugs would be particularly hard. 

Birkbeck halls on the Strathclyde campus. Doesn’t get much worse than that in terms of accommodation but what a time 

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4 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

As requested here's my plan - 

Thank you. 

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Stop testing schoolkids with the sniffles and their families, perfectly healthy students and people with no symptoms and use that capacity for regular testing of care home staff, home carers and members of the public with responsibilities for regular care of elderly and vulnerable people. That is until more testing capacity becomes available. If these people are unable to work for 14 days or whatever give homes, councils, charities the funds to provide replacement care. This will help provide temporary jobs and retraining for people made unemployed during the last few months.

So we temporarily let people who're unqualified and have not been vetted in to care for vulnerable people? There's not enough qualified people as it is and you think we can magic up more at short notice? Are these people who've been drafted in living in the homes? Or are they living in society in general and, due to higher virus prevalence, likely taking Covid in to the homes? 

How often are we testing people with caring responsibilities? Given the virus prevalence will be increasing massively due to what you say below, it'd need to be very, very frequent. Or do these people and their whole families shield? Otherwise the virus will undoubtedly be passed on. 

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Nursing homes should have trained nurses on at all times but where possible increase this to care homes.

So we're removing nurses from hospitals? What will that do to NHS regular business? 

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Increased use of hypochlorous acid, with sprays placed at the entrances of care homes, hospitals, train stations etc

Meals on wheels, home visits from doctors, chemists etc for those who need them.

Again, Dr's living in a society with higher virus prevalence will likely end up taking the virus in to care homes and decimate them. As I outlined before you'd need them to be work on a rota basis and not leave, with a quarantine period before they go in for their stint. 

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Council helplines for people choosing to shield set up for any assistance required (I'd get the traffic wardens doing it but thats not a dealbreaker)

What's this achieving? 

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Payments for people who have to isolate through track and trace

Continue with social distancing where possible but allow businesses to operate where this isn't possible

"Continue where possible" but if it isn't, just crack on anyway. I wonder how that'll go... 

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I'd basically make it as easy as possible for people who CHOOSE to shield to do so.

That doesn't really mean anything. How would you "make it easy"? Pay people full wages? 

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After a few months of this the R number would be very low as the virus will have spread amongst the general population and a degree of immunity will have built up.

We don't even know that lasting immunity exists. 

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We're going to have to accept that some people will die from this and they will continue to do so forevermore.

We're all aware of that. What your "plan" would do is just sacrifice more of the less healthy. 

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I'd like to have taken this option from the start and the the furlough billions could have been used in a different way rather than paying perfectly healthy people, some of them very well off, thousands of pounds a month to stay at home to hide from a disease that a)will hardly affect them b) they are going to catch anyway but that ship has sailed

BOOKMARKED for when Parky says "how would you protect the vulnerable" for the 1000th time

You can bookmark that if you'd like but given the virus prevalence would increase massively (assuming we're stopping all the things you've moaned about previously - face coverings, limits on gatherings, etc and the social distancing doesn't actually matter you mentioned above) and it'd undoubtedly end up infecting many of the people who're old/vulnerable, it wouldn't work IMO. 

Mixing people living in a society with the virus at high prevalence, with the people who cannot withstand the virus is what in essence you'd do. You cannot "Protect the vulnerable" without keeping the virus under control. 

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Parky you seem to be presuming that everyone would be catching it at the same time and would be infectious at all times. That wouldn't happen. People would catch it, isolate if required and then be able to crack on for at least 6 months if not longer with immunity. 

People can be vetted in 2 minutes. It's a simple check on a police computer, and trained on the job in a week. It's helping people eat, wash and wipe arses how much training do you think it takes? 

The nurses could still be employed by the NHS, they'd just be caring in a different setting. 

Of course the prevalence would be higher but your chat about it being impossible for people to shield or to prevent it getting in care homes is something you've decided in you head and can't be shifted from. 

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5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

Parky you seem to be presuming that everyone would be catching it at the same time and would be infectious at all times.
 

No, I'm not presuming that at all. 

5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

That wouldn't happen. People would catch it, isolate if required and then be able to crack on for at least 6 months if not longer with immunity. 

But many on here have told us that most people don't even know they have it. So we'd have most of the infectious people not isolating at all. 

5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

People can be vetted in 2 minutes. It's a simple check on a police computer, and trained on the job in a week. It's helping people eat, wash and wipe arses how much training do you think it takes? 
 

You've a very low respect for what it takes to care for someone if you think you can be trained in a week on the job. 

5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

The nurses could still be employed by the NHS, they'd just be caring in a different setting. 

Yeah but they wouldn't be in hospitals, so hospital services will suffer. Wasn't reduced hospital services one of the big complaints on here? 

5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

Of course the prevalence would be higher but your chat about it being impossible for people to shield or to prevent it getting in care homes is something you've decided in you head and can't be shifted from. 

It's something I can't be shifted from without it actually being explained to me properly how it'd work. What you've said above wouldn't work. 

If you genuinely think we can "protect the vulnerable" effectively by doing what you said, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

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Just now, Parklife said:

What was she basing that unique and outlandish claim on? 

Can't remember, something to do with other respiratory illnesses. Was deep in thought with work tbh. 

Another lad was on ridiculing Vallance and Whitty which was also good to hear.  Pretty much said we need to take precautions but the blanket restrictions on everyone was unfair.

I'm no expert,  don't claim to be either but was refreshing to hear rather than the likes of Vine 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Parklife said:

No, I'm not presuming that at all. 

But many on here have told us that most people don't even know they have it. So we'd have most of the infectious people not isolating at all. 

You've a very low respect for what it takes to care for someone if you think you can be trained in a week on the job. 

Yeah but they wouldn't be in hospitals, so hospital services will suffer. Wasn't reduced hospital services one of the big complaints on here? 

It's something I can't be shifted from without it actually being explained to me properly how it'd work. What you've said above wouldn't work. 

If you genuinely think we can "protect the vulnerable" effectively by doing what you said, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Parky we can't protect anyone 100% but I'd rather money was thrown at attempting to do that than on pointlessly paying people to sit at home. Recruiting and training new carers, testing the people who need it and providing services for people who choose to stay at home is perfectly possible and would provide a level of protection without asking the rest of the population to sacrifice family life, friendships and human contact for months on end. Without a vaccine this could drag on for years, do you think that is a viable proposition? How long is too long? It will have to be done at some point why not now?

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2 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

Parky we can't protect anyone 100%

Of course we can't but your idea of inflicting absolute long term misery on 1 million people in the UK (that was roughly the number who shielded) and still not actually protecting them doesn't seem the best way forward to me. 

2 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

but I'd rather money was thrown at attempting to do that than on pointlessly paying people to sit at home. 

Furlough would've never been required wholesale like it was if we'd taken the virus seriously from the off. I agree, that's not a good strategy, it was however necessary back in March. 

2 hours ago, manboobs109 said:


Recruiting and training new carers, testing the people who need it and providing services for people who choose to stay at home is perfectly possible and would provide a level of protection without asking the rest of the population to sacrifice family life, friendships and human contact for months on end.

It wouldn't provide adequate protection though IMO. We'll have to agree to disagree. 

I don't want to sacrifice those things either. I don't think we had to either, if folk would have greater respect and comply with the guidelines that were in place. That wasn't happening and now we've got harsher restrictions because the virus has spread again. 

Ive been following the guidelines and I'm being deprived of those things now. So you can imagine that I'm pretty pissed off about it. 

2 hours ago, manboobs109 said:


Without a vaccine this could drag on for years, do you think that is a viable proposition? How long is too long? It will have to be done at some point why not now?

We're already developing effective treatments to treat those with acute cases. As we learn more about the virus we'll develop/discover more, We'll better understand the long term impact of it and hopefully we'll get a breakthrough that either 1) gives immunity or 2) reduces the effect of it on people.

I don't think we'll agree on much about all of this and I don't think either of us are likely to change the others opinion, so I'd say it's best for me to leave it there. 

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