The future of motor vehicles & ownership

[Clydeside_Sheep]

So new diesel / petrol cars are not to be sold beyond 2030 across the UK.  What are your thoughts on this?

Does this just mean purely combustion engined vehicles?  Presumably Hybrids will be allowed?

I know this is ten years way, but the technology has a long way to go before purely electric cars are feasible for everyone beyond folk who do no mileage. Even if they can fix the range problems, surely the main problem to overcome is charging. 

Currently, I can fill my ageing Skoda Superb with ~55 litres of Diesel in mere minutes and that gets me 100s of miles of range.  When we run out of juice, its only a few minutes re-fill to completely replenish the range.  There is a new petrol-hybrid Superb. Its purely electric range is only ~30 miles and it takes 4 hours to charge that.  You can see the problem.   (Why cant hybrids charge themselves when running conventionally?)

Cost is a big thing too, my sister in law was quoted >20k for an electric Corsa.  A Corsa!  The hybrid Superb is nearly 30k.

I guess I am wondering - will this be a fundamental change to car usage and ownership? Can we really expect the new types of cars to do what combustion engined cars currently do?

I notice Glasgow cooncil is currently building bike lanes everywhere - eating up road space - and telling lies that these are "temporary" to "help with social distancing".  Its as if they are expecting a big uptake in cycling.  Don't get me wrong, bike lanes are good - but I prefer roads, as, with our weather and culture, bike lanes will never be heavily used here (they will also be neglected by the same Councils who create them).  And you cant transport the weekly shopping and 3 kids on a bike.

Might this cause car ownership to become even more exclusive than it already is?  We have a driveway for 2 cars (which could be made bigger) and so could probably install charging facilities easily enough.  But what about people who live in flats, or terraced housing, for example?  How the fuck could they charge an electric car?   

The current dribble of facilities you see in City Centres / train stations are just a gimmick and could never be expanded sufficiently to cope.  Its only really feasible to have mass charging done at home, meaning you cant do it when "out and about" and, if you don't have the space/means at home, then your bums out the window.  Could our electricity generation capacity even cope, if everyone suddenly needed to charge their car?

And what of jobs which depend on oil, if the demand will start dropping off following the next decade? 

There seems a bit more to all this than meets the eye.  It all sounds fine with politicians and their throwaway "targets" but I think there could be big implications from all this, when you consider the detail.  You hear speculation that this overblown Corona virus stuff is really a means to usher in "the great reset" of fundamental social change - that would tie up nicely with reduced car ownership in future, if many people can work from home (not to mention increased bike usage, if that's what the weegie cooncil is hoping for).

I'd be quite happy to have all electric vehicles, as long as they have good range, can replenish that range quickly and make a noise so you can hear them coming.

I think Hybrids are probably feasible going forward, but the charge issues remain.  It all seems a bit pie in the sky, much like the idea of us moving away from natural gas central heating. I asked a mechanic friend his opinion recently and he was utterly disdainful of it.

Does anyone have a hybrid or electric car currently?

[The Boofon]

TL:DR

[YorkDon]

I have a Tesla, and the whole charging thing seems to be the main issue in changing people to electric cars, along with the range, and of course the cost.

I got mine in August, and aside from a couple of times I’ve slightly worried about where to charge it when out and about, it’s been a fairly smooth transition.

I have a home charger, and according to the apps I use, I don’t spend more than £10-£12 a week on keeping it topped up.

The real thing is the infrastructure at the moment, but I noticed a couple of chargers in a Burger King car park in Leeds yesterday amd I know some Lidl stores have them too.This will only get better as time goes on, and more council and private car parks will introduce electric charging points.

One issue that hasn’t been looked at much is how will the government claw back the huge tax income from ICE cars once they get us all to go electric?Road tax and the huge tax on petrol they will no longer get, will need to be clawed back somehow.

It’s getting there, but the more “affordable” cars, like the Corsa you mentioned, aren’t great cars, and the range is terrible.

2030 is a very ambitious target, and one I can’t see being reached.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Good post.  Can everyone please not go all HRT on it!

My immediate question is one assumes 2nd hand combustion car sale will continue, or does the value of the new diesel now plummet come 2026 ish.

Also noticed they're promoting a subsidy on electric bikes.  Bet that pisses off the furloughers who couldnt get them out of the halfords door quick enough in June.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

To add, I also think we've a revolution in home working coming post covids that will massively change the car market/public transport scene also.

[Bluto10]

goldie wilson hover conversions

[The Boofon]

10 minutes ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

Good post.  Can everyone please not go all HRT on it!

My immediate question is one assumes 2nd hand combustion car sale will continue, or does the value of the new diesel now plummet come 2026 ish.

Also noticed they're promoting a subsidy on electric bikes.  Bet that pisses off the furloughers who couldnt get them out of the halfords door quick enough in June.

Great as a bonnie looking place to watch a pantomine in Rosemount.

[redstrummer]

1 hour ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

(Why cant hybrids charge themselves when running conventionally?)

They do 

[BrianFaePerth]

2 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

So new diesel / petrol cars are not to be sold beyond 2030 across the UK.  What are your thoughts on this?

Does this just mean purely combustion engined vehicles?  Presumably Hybrids will be allowed?

I know this is ten years way, but the technology has a long way to go before purely electric cars are feasible for everyone beyond folk who do no mileage. Even if they can fix the range problems, surely the main problem to overcome is charging. 

Currently, I can fill my ageing Skoda Superb with ~55 litres of Diesel in mere minutes and that gets me 100s of miles of range.  When we run out of juice, its only a few minutes re-fill to completely replenish the range.  There is a new petrol-hybrid Superb. Its purely electric range is only ~30 miles and it takes 4 hours to charge that.  You can see the problem.   (Why cant hybrids charge themselves when running conventionally?)

Cost is a big thing too, my sister in law was quoted >20k for an electric Corsa.  A Corsa!  The hybrid Superb is nearly 30k.

I guess I am wondering - will this be a fundamental change to car usage and ownership? Can we really expect the new types of cars to do what combustion engined cars currently do?

I notice Glasgow cooncil is currently building bike lanes everywhere - eating up road space - and telling lies that these are "temporary" to "help with social distancing".  Its as if they are expecting a big uptake in cycling.  Don't get me wrong, bike lanes are good - but I prefer roads, as, with our weather and culture, bike lanes will never be heavily used here (they will also be neglected by the same Councils who create them).  And you cant transport the weekly shopping and 3 kids on a bike.

Might this cause car ownership to become even more exclusive than it already is?  We have a driveway for 2 cars (which could be made bigger) and so could probably install charging facilities easily enough.  But what about people who live in flats, or terraced housing, for example?  How the fuck could they charge an electric car?   

The current dribble of facilities you see in City Centres / train stations are just a gimmick and could never be expanded sufficiently to cope.  Its only really feasible to have mass charging done at home, meaning you cant do it when "out and about" and, if you don't have the space/means at home, then your bums out the window.  Could our electricity generation capacity even cope, if everyone suddenly needed to charge their car?

And what of jobs which depend on oil, if the demand will start dropping off following the next decade? 

There seems a bit more to all this than meets the eye.  It all sounds fine with politicians and their throwaway "targets" but I think there could be big implications from all this, when you consider the detail.  You hear speculation that this overblown Corona virus stuff is really a means to usher in "the great reset" of fundamental social change - that would tie up nicely with reduced car ownership in future, if many people can work from home (not to mention increased bike usage, if that's what the weegie cooncil is hoping for).

I'd be quite happy to have all electric vehicles, as long as they have good range, can replenish that range quickly and make a noise so you can hear them coming.

I think Hybrids are probably feasible going forward, but the charge issues remain.  It all seems a bit pie in the sky, much like the idea of us moving away from natural gas central heating. I asked a mechanic friend his opinion recently and he was utterly disdainful of it.

Does anyone have a hybrid or electric car currently?

Electric cars are so 2013

[Bluto10]

your whip run on leccy, Bri?

[The Boofon]

10 minutes ago, Bluto10 said:

your whip run on leccy, Bri?

@Henry you got cars up in Orkney?

 

 

[Henry]

Yes, my turn is coming up soon. 

[BrianFaePerth]

12 minutes ago, Bluto10 said:

your whip run on leccy, Bri?

My old whip did. 

Eh am keeping the likes of the Boof in a job now

[The Boofon]

4 minutes ago, BrianFaePerth said:

My old whip did. 

Eh am keeping the likes of the Boof in a job now

Solar powered?

 

Amazing.

[manboobs109]

I hate motors. They can all get to fuck as far as I'm concerned. If I get a job on a bus route I'm binning mine. 

[The Boofon]

Just now, manboobs109 said:

I hate motors. They can all get to fuck as far as I'm concerned. If I get a job on a bus route I'm binning mine. 

There's a shock.

[manboobs109]

Why is it a shock? Must one like automobiles? 

[The Boofon]

Just now, manboobs109 said:

Why is it a shock? Must one like automobiles? 

Anything that's ever said on here you take the alternative view that's all. 

 

"I love tidy birds."

 

"I can't stand them."

 

etc.

[manboobs109]

I go with the majority on here in one respect, I think you are a dick. 

[The Boofon]

Just now, manboobs109 said:

I go with the majority on here in one respect, I think you are a dick. 

Haha.

No case for the defence in this one.

 

Prick.

 

 

 

[Poodler]

27 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

I go with the majority on here in one respect, I think you are a dick. 

Haha

[redstrummer]

1 minute ago, Sooper-hanz said:

My Mrs hybrid charges as its driving and alternates between diesel and battery. 
 The cars are too quiet imo. Expect the amount of folk who get run over to increase . 
Also is there any way you could adapt street lights as charging points ?  

onto a winner there , get it patented 

[Bluto10]

12 minutes ago, redstrummer said:

onto a winner there , get it patented 

they already do (in some places)

[manboobs109]

I know a boy who'll do it for you. Very discreet

[Redforever86]

Decent post for a change CS but as ever I'm sure you must be funded by some catholic right wing anti progress bureau to post this shite. 

The range on electric cars is more than adequate for 99% of the journeys people use cars for. I'm sure in 10 years the majority of electric cars sold will have a decent range and charging times will be a lot quicker. For the few instances/niches this isn't suitable you can use hybrid, or hydrogen vehicles or even an old ICE car.

Charging points are increasing all the time, it will be the law to not include one in a new home with a parking space, office car parks, and street parking will all start to add them when demand rises. Also experiments with systems where driving over an area of road (on a motorway for example) can charge the vehicle. 

In terms of the date, it probably won't be met, but you need to set a date or you won't achieve fuck all. The current politicians know they will be most likely gone by then anyway. 

Electricity capacity is always increasing, and other areas require less electricity. Worse case scenario you burn the fossil fuels to create electricity in a transitional period of couple of decades. 

Actually agree with you on electric (and standard) bikes, as I think half the mongs in this country would kill themselves on the roads with one. Much better to invest in small single person vehicles that are cheap to run on city commutes. 

I think we will see a lot of hydrogen start to appear in the next 5 years or so. It makes more sense for heating and a lot of transport issues in this country. 

[DD1903]

8 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

So new diesel / petrol cars are not to be sold beyond 2030 across the UK.  What are your thoughts on this?

Does this just mean purely combustion engined vehicles?  Presumably Hybrids will be allowed?

I know this is ten years way, but the technology has a long way to go before purely electric cars are feasible for everyone beyond folk who do no mileage. Even if they can fix the range problems, surely the main problem to overcome is charging. 

Currently, I can fill my ageing Skoda Superb with ~55 litres of Diesel in mere minutes and that gets me 100s of miles of range.  When we run out of juice, its only a few minutes re-fill to completely replenish the range.  There is a new petrol-hybrid Superb. Its purely electric range is only ~30 miles and it takes 4 hours to charge that.  You can see the problem.   (Why cant hybrids charge themselves when running conventionally?)

Cost is a big thing too, my sister in law was quoted >20k for an electric Corsa.  A Corsa!  The hybrid Superb is nearly 30k.

I guess I am wondering - will this be a fundamental change to car usage and ownership? Can we really expect the new types of cars to do what combustion engined cars currently do?

I notice Glasgow cooncil is currently building bike lanes everywhere - eating up road space - and telling lies that these are "temporary" to "help with social distancing".  Its as if they are expecting a big uptake in cycling.  Don't get me wrong, bike lanes are good - but I prefer roads, as, with our weather and culture, bike lanes will never be heavily used here (they will also be neglected by the same Councils who create them).  And you cant transport the weekly shopping and 3 kids on a bike.

Might this cause car ownership to become even more exclusive than it already is?  We have a driveway for 2 cars (which could be made bigger) and so could probably install charging facilities easily enough.  But what about people who live in flats, or terraced housing, for example?  How the fuck could they charge an electric car?   

The current dribble of facilities you see in City Centres / train stations are just a gimmick and could never be expanded sufficiently to cope.  Its only really feasible to have mass charging done at home, meaning you cant do it when "out and about" and, if you don't have the space/means at home, then your bums out the window.  Could our electricity generation capacity even cope, if everyone suddenly needed to charge their car?

And what of jobs which depend on oil, if the demand will start dropping off following the next decade? 

There seems a bit more to all this than meets the eye.  It all sounds fine with politicians and their throwaway "targets" but I think there could be big implications from all this, when you consider the detail.  You hear speculation that this overblown Corona virus stuff is really a means to usher in "the great reset" of fundamental social change - that would tie up nicely with reduced car ownership in future, if many people can work from home (not to mention increased bike usage, if that's what the weegie cooncil is hoping for).

I'd be quite happy to have all electric vehicles, as long as they have good range, can replenish that range quickly and make a noise so you can hear them coming.

I think Hybrids are probably feasible going forward, but the charge issues remain.  It all seems a bit pie in the sky, much like the idea of us moving away from natural gas central heating. I asked a mechanic friend his opinion recently and he was utterly disdainful of it.

Does anyone have a hybrid or electric car currently?

Good point re flats. My mate lives in a top floor tenement - his street is rammed every day with cars. There will need to be dozens of charging points, with multiple outlets, to allow residents to charge their cars. Now I know that it won't be a case that every car owner will immediately switch to electric, but it'll take some amount of work and time to get the infrastructure in place in Glasgow alone. Never mind across the country. If the government or council/public sector are involved, it'll be a shambles.
 

Could lead to plenty of job opportunities right enough 

[Redforever86]

1 hour ago, DD1903 said:

Good point re flats. My mate lives in a top floor tenement - his street is rammed every day with cars. There will need to be dozens of charging points, with multiple outlets, to allow residents to charge their cars. Now I know that it won't be a case that every car owner will immediately switch to electric, but it'll take some amount of work and time to get the infrastructure in place in Glasgow alone. Never mind across the country. If the government or council/public sector are involved, it'll be a shambles.
 

Could lead to plenty of job opportunities right enough 

If you have a space where you can currently park your car there will be a space to put your a charger there. Also cars don't need charged every time they are parked...

[YorkDon]

3 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

If you have a space where you can currently park your car there will be a space to put your a charger there. Also cars don't need charged every time they are parked...

The current legislation to qualify for the government grant for buying and installing a home charger requires you to have “off street” parking, or at least it did when I got mine in August.

 

 

 

 

[Redforever86]

9 minutes ago, YorkDon said:

The current legislation to qualify for the government grant for buying and installing a home charger requires you to have “off street” parking, or at least it did when I got mine in August.

 

 

 

 

Of course it does. 
 

That has nothing do to with what I said. 
 

the council would install them or private companies.

[DD1903]

15 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

If you have a space where you can currently park your car there will be a space to put your a charger there. Also cars don't need charged every time they are parked...

Not every time, but some may at least every other day. 
 

as for spaces. Let's take the south side of Glasgow. Not every street that contains tenements has allocated parking spaces at the moment. Those that do can't hold as many cars as those that don't have markings. Some flats will have 0 cars, some 1, 2 or maybe more. Where are all these spaces for chargers ?