Controversial

[SheepieBaaBaa]

I keep seeing comments and threads about "Brown must go" and "who should Brown be replaced by"

 

Now, I'll start by saying I'm as pissed off as anyone else about the inability to score, the guff goalkeeping at Celtink park, and the constant bringing on od Christina as a sub, but...

 

I've been to every home game this season, and frankly we've been playing nice attacking football, looking dangerous, but the ball just hasn't been going in the net.

Now that would be a much bigger issue if it wasn't for the fact that in the last 3 home games there have been at least 6 shots cleared almost literally off the line, and 3 that have rattled off the crossbar (2 of which were yesterday and I would have sworn were goals at the time).

 

What this shows is that we "possibly" need a better goal "taker" or someone that can shoot from distance, but Vernon has been getting on the end of things, but just not finishing.

 

So, I'll subscribe to the "we need a goal scorer" argument, but Craig Brown probably agrees, but he can't just pull one out of his arse, there's nae money to get one in. If McGinn hadn't gotten injured, who knows, it might have been him and there might have been a nice combination of him as a dep lying forward, and Vernon with a bit more support, having a bit more luck.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that being in a place where we're dissapponted with draws against Hearts because we played them off the field is a hell of an improvement on recent seasons, especially if with a bit of different luck/breaks and without Clangers howler we could have been sitting near, or top of the table.

 

I still reckon Brown os doing a good job within major limitations, and I'm willing to stay behind him and the team for a while longer before starting to lose faith.

 

I'm just putting this out there, but does anyone agree, or are the general thoughts to jump on the "Brown must go" bandwagon.......

 

Porterfield must go, Smith must go, Miller must go, Aitken must go ... and then we know where that trend got us.

[anderson72]

I agree with the thinking of Craig Brown is doing a good job, I've been to most of the games this season and for the last 10 years, supported the team for about 30 years.

What I've seen this season is a team playing good football, but lacking the problem of scoring goals, due to luck or confidence and players being starting to work together.

 

The defence is soild enough, with a strong Anderson marshalling the defence the midfield is creating chances, and some good youngsters starting to come through the ranks for the top team.

If we look at the big picture, it's the start of the season and only defeated by a Goalkeeping mistake at Celtic park this campaign.

 

In my eyes Vernon seems to be a bit isolated at times and needs someone to play beside at times up front, but in general Craig Brown and Archie are doing a good job.

I've seen this calling for a managers head in the past, and getting their wish only for our team to be set back a few years as a new man would manage a team is way, and disrupt the present set up, and may cause problems to the youth set-up.

 

Let the season pan out and take stock of what happens towards the end of this campaign.

[alscotoz]

I keep seeing comments and threads about "Brown must go" and "who should Brown be replaced by"

 

Now, I'll start by saying I'm as pissed off as anyone else about the inability to score, the guff goalkeeping at Celtink park, and the constant bringing on od Christina as a sub, but...

 

I've been to every home game this season, and frankly we've been playing nice attacking football, looking dangerous, but the ball just hasn't been going in the net.

Now that would be a much bigger issue if it wasn't for the fact that in the last 3 home games there have been at least 6 shots cleared almost literally off the line, and 3 that have rattled off the crossbar (2 of which were yesterday and I would have sworn were goals at the time).

 

What this shows is that we "possibly" need a better goal "taker" or someone that can shoot from distance, but Vernon has been getting on the end of things, but just not finishing.

 

So, I'll subscribe to the "we need a goal scorer" argument, but Craig Brown probably agrees, but he can't just pull one out of his arse, there's nae money to get one in. If McGinn hadn't gotten injured, who knows, it might have been him and there might have been a nice combination of him as a dep lying forward, and Vernon with a bit more support, having a bit more luck.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that being in a place where we're dissapponted with draws against Hearts because we played them off the field is a hell of an improvement on recent seasons, especially if with a bit of different luck/breaks and without Clangers howler we could have been sitting near, or top of the table.

 

I still reckon Brown os doing a good job within major limitations, and I'm willing to stay behind him and the team for a while longer before starting to lose faith.

 

I'm just putting this out there, but does anyone agree, or are the general thoughts to jump on the "Brown must go" bandwagon.......

 

Porterfield must go, Smith must go, Miller must go, Aitken must go ... and then we know where that trend got us.

 

Good luck!

[fifered]

Got to say I totally agree with these comments. Ive not bothered reading most of the threads since yesterday because I can't be arsed reading the same old reactionary bullshit from the same people. The team is playing well, just either lacking the goal scorer or maybe you could argue a bit of luck.

 

Ive been to all the home games and whilst I'm frustrated I'm also happy at the style of play, the dominance of our midfield and the effectiveness of our wingers.

 

I suppose some of the dons fans can be summed up by a moment yesterday towards the end of the game when Anderson had the ball and played a few passes around the defence, including to the keeper. Folk were shouting and booing because he hadn't lumped it forward. Fucking nonsense, we kept possession looking for an opening instead of just loosing the ball.

 

Yesterday the team did well, closed down high up the pitch, created chances, dominated a team that normally has more possession than others in the SPL and but for a couple of inches difference in finishing we'd have won the game at a canter.

 

Brown has revamped this squad since he took over and anyone who thinks he has not made a difference to this team needs their head read.

[friedbergdvah]

Got to say I totally agree with these comments. Ive not bothered reading most of the threads since yesterday because I can't be arsed reading the same old reactionary bullshit from the same people.

 

 

Spot on. Seconded

[zander]

We really should have held on to Pawlett imo we are going to struggle to get 90 minutes out of Fraser every week. The system we are playing will work but when we have to result to guys like Clark out wide in the second half it just isnt going to work. Be interesting to see were we go with Milsom and McGinn back.

[muttonhumper]

I keep seeing comments and threads about "Brown must go" and "who should Brown be replaced by"

 

Now, I'll start by saying I'm as pissed off as anyone else about the inability to score, the guff goalkeeping at Celtink park, and the constant bringing on od Christina as a sub, but...

 

I've been to every home game this season, and frankly we've been playing nice attacking football, looking dangerous, but the ball just hasn't been going in the net.

Now that would be a much bigger issue if it wasn't for the fact that in the last 3 home games there have been at least 6 shots cleared almost literally off the line, and 3 that have rattled off the crossbar (2 of which were yesterday and I would have sworn were goals at the time).

 

What this shows is that we "possibly" need a better goal "taker" or someone that can shoot from distance, but Vernon has been getting on the end of things, but just not finishing.

 

So, I'll subscribe to the "we need a goal scorer" argument, but Craig Brown probably agrees, but he can't just pull one out of his arse, there's nae money to get one in. If McGinn hadn't gotten injured, who knows, it might have been him and there might have been a nice combination of him as a dep lying forward, and Vernon with a bit more support, having a bit more luck.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that being in a place where we're dissapponted with draws against Hearts because we played them off the field is a hell of an improvement on recent seasons, especially if with a bit of different luck/breaks and without Clangers howler we could have been sitting near, or top of the table.

 

I still reckon Brown os doing a good job within major limitations, and I'm willing to stay behind him and the team for a while longer before starting to lose faith.

 

I'm just putting this out there, but does anyone agree, or are the general thoughts to jump on the "Brown must go" bandwagon.......

 

Porterfield must go, Smith must go, Miller must go, Aitken must go ... and then we know where that trend got us.

Like I said in another thread.

He had the opportunity to sign Griffiths but did not.

So he is ABSOLUTELY culpable in that regard.

 

But we are certainly a far better side to watch this term.

Quite distraught that we canna get the goals our play deserves really.

[zander]

A manager can only hope his striker will be a goal scorer, it just seems we don't go for any out and out strikers this year and thats going to hurt us.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

Good to see a balnce of opinion though. I was getting pretty pissed off at the "get rid of Brown" nonsense.

 

Griffiths might have been a good shout to get in, but I honestly don't know whether he was a realistic shout as I don't know what his wage demands were, and to be honest if it were a choice between getting him and Hayes or McGinn (or both) for example, I'm happy with Hayes and McGinn (unlucky to get injured, same with Naismith, who really looks the part).

 

Also great to see Osborne stepping up and playing well and Russell back to looking like his old self.

 

Can't argue, that I'd love a proven goalscorer and a more solid keeper, but sometimes you can't have all the toys in the shop with limited pocket money.

 

If Vernon can hit a run of form, or we CAN get a lethal striker in, then I'll be delighted and so will most I reckon.

[muttondressedaslamb]

+1 from me.

 

What a difference from last season, in fact the last few seasons. We are exciting to watch for a change, we are dominating play. But it is so incredibly frustrating. Fingers crossed for Vernon finding his form.

[Sonoftherock]

I can see the argument.... but we are in desperate need of a player who can link the midfield and attack. This has been the case for a long time too!

 

I can't understand how Brown can't see this!?!

[perthshirered]

Totally agree with most of the above.

Craig Brown really is a safe pair of hands to have at the helm.

I dont want a team who is 4th one year and 11th the next, then 5th and 10th etc etc. I want a team built to last and eventually start to challenge and compete on a yearly basis. I think there is definite progress. We are dominating teams in a manner that i cant remember for a long time.

The performances have drastically improved and im sure the results will come soon enough.

How many saves has Langfield had to make all season? Hardly any at all. We dont even look like conceding half-chances at the moment, let alone goals. We are creating plenty of chances and sooner or later they will go in.

With a bit of luck and a bit more composure we would be sitting on 13points out of 15, in reality we should have won every game with the exception of Celtic away, where a draw was certainly within our grasp. i dont think you can blame Brown for Vernon missing that sitter against Ross County or other piss poor efforts by the likes of Rae in front of goal. But the makings of a very good side are there.

Im quietly happy with the way things are going so far.

[SAFandthedons1983]

 

I suppose some of the dons fans can be summed up by a moment yesterday towards the end of the game when Anderson had the ball and played a few passes around the defence, including to the keeper. Folk were shouting and booing because he hadn't lumped it forward. Fucking nonsense, we kept possession looking for an opening instead of just loosing the ball.

 

 

thats the kind of thing that especially pisses me off, and hear it nearly every game. got to put my hands up and admit i was wrong- i thought we would stagnate under Brown, and the (admittedly good) options added out wide (hayes especially) would be wasted, as i thought we'd just hoof it for them to chase. But the team is playing well and passing it properly- still dont really rate Vernon, but the lack of goals has been more down to misfortune and player mistakes as opposed to managerial incompetence.

[ebbe]

there is a marked improvement this year i don't think anyone can argue that and we are also far better to watch. long may it continue, hopefully we will start to get a bit of luck and vernon will pull his finger out.

[Red Loon]

I keep seeing comments and threads about "Brown must go" and "who should Brown be replaced by"

 

Now, I'll start by saying I'm as pissed off as anyone else about the inability to score, the guff goalkeeping at Celtink park, and the constant bringing on od Christina as a sub, but...

 

I've been to every home game this season, and frankly we've been playing nice attacking football, looking dangerous, but the ball just hasn't been going in the net.

Now that would be a much bigger issue if it wasn't for the fact that in the last 3 home games there have been at least 6 shots cleared almost literally off the line, and 3 that have rattled off the crossbar (2 of which were yesterday and I would have sworn were goals at the time).

 

What this shows is that we "possibly" need a better goal "taker" or someone that can shoot from distance, but Vernon has been getting on the end of things, but just not finishing.

 

So, I'll subscribe to the "we need a goal scorer" argument, but Craig Brown probably agrees, but he can't just pull one out of his arse, there's nae money to get one in. If McGinn hadn't gotten injured, who knows, it might have been him and there might have been a nice combination of him as a dep lying forward, and Vernon with a bit more support, having a bit more luck.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that being in a place where we're dissapponted with draws against Hearts because we played them off the field is a hell of an improvement on recent seasons, especially if with a bit of different luck/breaks and without Clangers howler we could have been sitting near, or top of the table.

 

I still reckon Brown os doing a good job within major limitations, and I'm willing to stay behind him and the team for a while longer before starting to lose faith.

 

I'm just putting this out there, but does anyone agree, or are the general thoughts to jump on the "Brown must go" bandwagon.......

 

Porterfield must go, Smith must go, Miller must go, Aitken must go ... and then we know where that trend got us.

 

Agree. We look much better. Broon is getting them sorted out.

 

Vernon is a good penalty box striker but is having to come back far too deep. A more attacking midfielder would help so it's a pity Milsom is crocked

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[essexdon]

i reckon one weekend very soon its all going to click and someone is going to take a hammering from us

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Agree with all of the above including Essexdon above. BUT there's always a 2 or 3 nil drubbing for us lurking somewhere as well and were it to come prior to us achieving ours the confidence is shot whilst the points are still not on the board - cue usual msm dons in crisis hysteria. It is how CB deals with that when it comes that will mark out his 2012 season.

 

He's done enough in the last season geting rid of dressing room rebels, deadwood and long term 'potentials' to merit his place for me. The everyone-in-with-a-shout-without-hunbo period just came a season too soon for him unfortunately.

[barassie_afc]

Playing better yes, results better no. That is the bottom line , one win in 9 at home .The board has backed him to the hilt and arguably we have the best squad of players in years, but can he get the best out of them ?

[Ke1t]

You can stick ten men behind the ball and get draws... Brown will be doing a good job when we start putting the ball in the net.

 

I remain unimpressed with his Porterfieldian antics,

[V for Vendetta]

I haven't read the thread sorry but this might be the appropriate place to suggest we all keep the head for another 3 or 4 games.

 

I say this because from all reports we have hugely improved the forward play from last season and on paper we have certainly resolved some of the obvious issues within the squad.

 

Bearing that in mind I think we need a few more weeks to let this take shape and see what this particular team can start to produce. Crucially we need to see if we start converting a few chances this starts to build confidence for the front 3 and we get those wins we all want.

 

I have a few thoughts on what I'd have done differently of course but if thats anyones criteria for thinking a management team should be sacked then thats a pretty sad state of affairs.

 

There was more case to sake Brown and Knox last year than now. Having let them shape the squad further lets see this squad play a reasonable number of games before we decide.

[Stoneybloke]

I dont want a team who is 4th one year and 11th the next, then 5th and 10th etc etc.

What about a consistent 9th then? Happy with that?

[Pudgie]

Some folk are just never happy. I'm actually leaving stadia all over Scotland entertained instead of enduring 90 minutes of dross. I've really enjoyed every game this season (wasn't at Perth) and I can live with what's being served up by Broon.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

You can stick ten men behind the ball and get draws... Brown will be doing a good job when we start putting the ball in the net.

 

I remain unimpressed with his Porterfieldian antics,

 

You're right...you CAN do that, but he ISN'T . Surely you're either fishing or haven't seen any of the games . To describe the current tactics as 10 men behind the ball, or "Porterfieldian" is either blatant fishing or profound blindness.

 

If he was playing 10 men behind the ball and obviously aiming for a draw I would 100% agree, but he absolutely isn't and to describe the tactics as defensive, boring or anything similar is just ridiculous. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've only seen the misleading TV "highlights".

[ebbe]

You're right...you CAN do that, but he ISN'T . Surely you're either fishing or haven't seen any of the games . To describe the current tactics as 10 men behind the ball, or "Porterfieldian" is either blatant fishing or profound blindness.

 

If he was playing 10 men behind the ball and obviously aiming for a draw I would 100% agree, but he absolutely isn't and to describe the tactics as defensive, boring or anything similar is just ridiculous. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've only seen the misleading TV "highlights".

 

would agree with that but this all 11 back at corners is seriously pissing me off.

[fifered]

You're right...you CAN do that, but he ISN'T . Surely you're either fishing or haven't seen any of the games . To describe the current tactics as 10 men behind the ball, or "Porterfieldian" is either blatant fishing or profound blindness.

 

If he was playing 10 men behind the ball and obviously aiming for a draw I would 100% agree, but he absolutely isn't and to describe the tactics as defensive, boring or anything similar is just ridiculous. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've only seen the misleading TV "highlights".

Spot on. I think anyone who watched the st mirren game and saw the way we were pressing them right up the pitch would see that, the highlights don't show it though. The number of times we pressed them into loosing possession was impressive, especially in the first half. Danny Lennon himself even indicated as much when he talked about how they didn't have an opportunity to play their normal game. Things will come good, I'm sure of that.

[Pudgie]

would agree with that but this all 11 back at corners is seriously pissing me off.

It's just one of those things. If managers like zonal marking then it takes 11 men. Personally I don't like it but I can't remember the last time we lost a goal from a corner (Ceptic Park disnae coont because I said so).

[Ke1t]

You're right...you CAN do that, but he ISN'T . Surely you're either fishing or haven't seen any of the games . To describe the current tactics as 10 men behind the ball, or "Porterfieldian" is either blatant fishing or profound blindness.

 

You'd be absolutely right if you weren't arguing a false dilemma. But you are, so.. yeah.

 

I have RedTV International, so I've seen a couple of games, listened to most.

 

Incidentally, I referred to his 'antics' ie results, as Porterfieldian, not his tactics. If you found my reference to Brown's tactics as blind or fishing then that's the result of your misreading/misinterpretation of what I said, rather than because of anything. I just thought I'd highlight that.

 

 

If he was playing 10 men behind the ball and obviously aiming for a draw I would 100% agree, but he absolutely isn't and to describe the tactics as defensive, boring or anything similar is just ridiculous. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that you've only seen the misleading TV "highlights".

 

First off, you assume incorrectly.

 

Second, settle down, I wasn't arguing that he was playing ten men behind the ball. I was pointing out that our results would have been largely the same if he HAD been playing ten men behind the ball, ergo there's nothing particularly impressive about a run of draws including two against two of the weaker teams... and at home at that.

 

I'll be impressed when we start winning. Right now we've been spectacularly unimpressive in racking up points.

 

One win in 5 league games is our current position. Feel free to be delighted.

 

We start winning games against Ross County and St Mirren at home and I promise I'll be impressed as all fuck too.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

First off, you assume incorrectly.

 

Second, settle down, I wasn't arguing that he was playing ten men behind the ball.

 

I'll be impressed when we start winning. Right now we've been spectacularly unimpressive in racking up points.

 

 

First off , I'm fully settled down and I didn't say I was impressed, simply that all this "Brown must go" shite is ridiculous given the performances.

 

Second, why not frame your argument in terms of the point you are making? When you say something, stick to the point you're making, it makes it so much easier .

 

Third off, if that is your personal basis for being impressed, I wholeheartedly support your right to do so, but personally I see performances where a coin toss of luck is the difference between 3 points and 1 given the last few seasons as being an impressive improvement.

 

Fourth, I actually said I would give you the benefit of assuming that you'd only seen highlights because you appeared to be suggesting (given the way you chose to frame your response) that the team were playing defensively.

 

I am still fully settled down though. My levels of calm are almost Zen-like as I post this response.

 

(if there was a meditation smiley I'd use it) instead I've used Vader since Jedi are kind of monk-ish. Not to confused with Monk fish, which are better for making Scampi

[Jocky Balboa]

I still vow to give Brown and Knox until Xmas and while I see a marked improvement in the play, the end product thus far is unconvincing. We should be top of the league atm (though I don't expect us to be there in May, a top 3 finish should be the MINIMUM ambition this season) but are 9th due to lack of cutting edge in front of goal.

 

I am also dismayed at their continual persistence with Clangers and failure to source a replacement for him. Health issues should NOT equate to sentimentality and he has shown many, many times that he is NOT a goalkeeper worthy of more than mid-table SPL standard. Clark's re-signing was also a mistake and I'm not sure Magennis has been a good signing. The jury is out on the Summer acquisitions, but I will happily give them time.

 

Verdict: Better, but still a long way to go.

[Ke1t]

First off, you assume incorrectly.

 

Second, settle down, I wasn't arguing that he was playing ten men behind the ball.

 

I'll be impressed when we start winning. Right now we've been spectacularly unimpressive in racking up points.

 

 

First off , I'm fully settled down and I didn't say I was impressed, simply that all this "Brown must go" shite is ridiculous given the performances.

 

Frame my argument, you say... I hadn't really been planning to make any kind of argument here, but fair enough.

 

It's largely academic, given he'll likely be off at the end of the season, and certainly not before. My own personal opinion regarding him staying or going is meh. Personally I think he's done fantastic when it comes to getting rid of the shitbags, and (Clark and Langfield aside) pretty good at bringing in a better quality of player.

 

Second, why not frame your argument in terms of the point you are making? When you say something, stick to the point you're making, it makes it so much easier .

 

Well, like I said, I wasn't making any sort of analysis, nor formulating some position from which to cast judgements or arguments... I'm largely ambivalent about the whole situation.

 

Third off, if that is your personal basis for being impressed, I wholeheartedly support your right to do so, but personally I see performances where a coin toss of luck is the difference between 3 points and 1 given the last few seasons as being an impressive improvement.

 

Now then... here I'm going to take issue. Because really this is the only point of contention, and the point of the OP.

 

Over the course of the season things like 'luck' and 'the run of the ball' will tend to even out. I sat through Smith's last season and all of Porterfield's tenure, and various other managers (fortunately Paterson was only seen from afar)... and one thing I learned is that you don't finish 9th because of bad luck. You finish 9th because there's a problem either with the quality of the players or the quality of the management.

 

I argued with people till I was blue in the face when they announced, "Ach.. we've just been unlucky" when the team was circling the drain three quarters of the way through the season. I'm sorry, but you're not 'unlucky' for 25 games straight. If you're only sitting off the relegation zone because Partick Thistle is ludicrously bad then it's because there's a problem. You don't see clubs like Real or Man United have 'bad luck' for years, because what people mistake for 'bad luck' is merely an inability to do what's necessary to win a game. Be that defending properly or hitting the back of the net. For our part we can't hit the back of the net. That's not bad luck, that's down to the quality (or sharpness) of our forward line. I guarantee that if we signed Messi or Teves our 'luck' would change, because those players wouldn't blaze the ball over from two yards out. in reality that's not luck. to reiterate it's about quality. We don't have strikers of sufficient quality.

 

Brown, for his part, has managed two 9th position places for us. This season he's managed one win in five.

 

I'm going to give him a pass for the first couple of finishes... because the team he inherited was chock full of untalented hacks, pouty shitbags, and not a lot else.

 

This season, however, we're still grinding out some spectacularly mediocre results... we're 5 games in and we've won once. I'm not putting this down to bad luck. Our forward line isn't nearly good enough... and after two seasons and four or five transfer windows... that's the manager's fault, not Lady Luck's.

 

I do agree that the football we're playing is a lot better though. That's meaningless without an end product, unfortunately.