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On 10/12/2021 at 9:28 PM, NEM said:

Ha ha as if that would apply if he was white ?

Aye nobody was beating Mike Tyson if Cus D’Amato hadn’t died. An absolute wrecking machine 

Respectfully disagree. Tyson was exciting in his day, that is for sure, but his record - when properly scrutinised - doesn't support this. He deserves massive credit for cleaning up a weak division and for his early 4 year spell, but the cold, hard fact is that the heavyweight opposition was poor and he never beat an all-time great at the top of their game (Larry Holmes was 38, semi-retired and coming off the back of two defeats). On paper, I'd say his victories against the dangerous and underrated Razor Ruddock were his best.

He was also taken the distance in his prime by several larger guys, who could hold him at bay, guys who weren't in the same league as Holyfield and Lewis. IMHO the latter two (who are both older than Tyson, let's not forget, before people use the age excuse for him again) would have still beaten him had he remained at the top of his game.

A great fighter for sure, but as people like Teddy Atlas and many other top pundits have said, he came undone when he faced people who weren't afraid of him and who really, really stood up to him. Douglas was the first and despite being an underdog, was no mug and having lost his mother just before the fight, gave the performance of his life. He was probably the first to out-bully the bully and thus destroyed the hype and mystique.

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18 minutes ago, Jocky Balboa said:

Respectfully disagree. Tyson was exciting in his day, that is for sure, but his record - when properly scrutinised - doesn't support this. He deserves massive credit for cleaning up a weak division and for his early 4 year spell, but the cold, hard fact is that the heavyweight opposition was poor and he never beat an all-time great at the top of their game (Larry Holmes was 38, semi-retired and coming off the back of two defeats). On paper, I'd say his victories against the dangerous and underrated Razor Ruddock were his best.

He was also taken the distance in his prime by several larger guys, who could hold him at bay, guys who weren't in the same league as Holyfield and Lewis. IMHO the latter two (who are both older than Tyson, let's not forget, before people use the age excuse for him again) would have still beaten him had he remained at the top of his game.

A great fighter for sure, but as people like Teddy Atlas and many other top pundits have said, he came undone when he faced people who weren't afraid of him and who really, really stood up to him. Douglas was the first and despite being an underdog, was no mug and having lost his mother just before the fight, gave the performance of his life. He was probably the first to out-bully the bully and thus destroyed the hype and mystique.

You make some good points but Tyson before D'Amato died and he was jailed etc would have beaten Lewis and Holyfield imo.  We'll never know either way though

Tyson was scoofing champagne in his dressing room before the Douglas fight and would have won if not for a slow count from the ref.

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19 hours ago, NEM said:

You make some good points but Tyson before D'Amato died and he was jailed etc would have beaten Lewis and Holyfield imo.  We'll never know either way though

Tyson was scoofing champagne in his dressing room before the Douglas fight and would have won if not for a slow count from the ref.

Again, it's supposition on both sides. People do forget however, that also Ali had a 3+ year layoff and came back to conquer all, despite an initially sluggish start. He also had to contend with Foreman, who was arguably as ferocious as Tyson ever was (see how he demolished guys who went the distance with Ali and how he lifted Frazier off the floor) and prevailed. I think Ali would have beaten a prime Tyson and there is little doubt he is the GOAT in the heavyweight ranks at least. I think a young Foreman would have also beaten Tyson. 

The Douglas fight was a perfect storm IMHO; Douglas was no mug and a decent contender, completely written off by the Tyson hype machine (and Tyson himself) who fought the fight of his life for his recently departed mother (notable that he lost his first defence to Holyfield and faded into obscurity after, though). What it did do however, is expose the fact that Tyson, for all his devastating knockout power, didn't have a Plan B and really struggled when someone really, really stood up to him. Baddest man on the planet? No, biggest bully, who struggled when his opponent had no fear.

I still agree with Teddy Atlas and co. who have pointed out that he never actually beat an all-time great at their peak, never got off the canvas to win a fight (most recently, Fury is seemingly an expert at this) and never avenged any of his defeats (he was on his way to another defeat by Holyfield, hence his ear-biting tactic to get out of it). Lewis was also the type Tyson always struggled with, even in his early years and IMHO would still have won (why did Tyson's camp pay Lewis "step aside money" in the 90's??)

Top 10 heavyweight for sure, maybe even top 6, but nowhere near GOAT. 

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11 hours ago, Jocky Balboa said:

Again, it's supposition on both sides. People do forget however, that also Ali had a 3+ year layoff and came back to conquer all, despite an initially sluggish start. He also had to contend with Foreman, who was arguably as ferocious as Tyson ever was (see how he demolished guys who went the distance with Ali and how he lifted Frazier off the floor) and prevailed. I think Ali would have beaten a prime Tyson and there is little doubt he is the GOAT in the heavyweight ranks at least. I think a young Foreman would have also beaten Tyson. 

The Douglas fight was a perfect storm IMHO; Douglas was no mug and a decent contender, completely written off by the Tyson hype machine (and Tyson himself) who fought the fight of his life for his recently departed mother (notable that he lost his first defence to Holyfield and faded into obscurity after, though). What it did do however, is expose the fact that Tyson, for all his devastating knockout power, didn't have a Plan B and really struggled when someone really, really stood up to him. Baddest man on the planet? No, biggest bully, who struggled when his opponent had no fear.

I still agree with Teddy Atlas and co. who have pointed out that he never actually beat an all-time great at their peak, never got off the canvas to win a fight (most recently, Fury is seemingly an expert at this) and never avenged any of his defeats (he was on his way to another defeat by Holyfield, hence his ear-biting tactic to get out of it). Lewis was also the type Tyson always struggled with, even in his early years and IMHO would still have won (why did Tyson's camp pay Lewis "step aside money" in the 90's??)

Top 10 heavyweight for sure, maybe even top 6, but nowhere near GOAT. 

Good post.

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Roberto said:

Cracking fight this weekend.

Hoping Canelo loses but just can't see it happening.

The fight card in the UFC looking good also.

Also got charity boxing on Sunday at Pittodrie. Busy weekend.

No chance Plant is beating Canelo

Colby will hopefully smoke the fake newsman

Goosey for the win Sunday

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Just now, Roberto said:

Yeah I don't think even Plant believes it. He is not convincing anyone that he isn't just there for the money.

3 good scraps on the card IMO. Looking forward to the Gaethje fight as well.

Yeah - seen he was doing work with you, you going? I've got ticket through Coops. Looking forward to his scrap as well. Monday will be a write off.

Nah would have for sure but in Manchester this weekend for the wife's birthday

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  • 2 weeks later...
5 hours ago, maryhilldon said:

Harder than  Dayts?   

Don’t be daft ?

 

3 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

Would be great to see the city host a genuine world title fight

Yeah some big nights ahead. Even a genuine British title fight (Lonsdale belt) would be class. Don’t think that’s been done before although Lee fought for the European at the exhibition centre. 

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