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Not sure I get your point about first round picks. Maybe you could elaborate.

 

They could have re signed Dez for free.

 

If the purpose is to win a championship, over paying for a rental isn't going to do it.

They will probably make this year's playoffs but are they beating the Saints/Rams/Bears (my God the bears are an upper echelon NFC team, hold me...) ?

 

So the pick they gave up reduces in value to the raiders but with the rookie scale, that's actually not terrible.

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First round picks on WR over the last few years have generally stunk out the place (Cooper actually being one of the few exceptions).  If that is the area that Cowboys had planned to use their first round pick on next year though, Cooper may have been viewed as less risk than a rookie.  

 

Dez is past it really.  Why is Cooper a rental?  They'll extend him this off-season (along with Prescott) and then they have him, Prescott and Zeke for the foreseeable.  

 

As for the playoffs, I guess last night shows they can compete. 0.800 since signing Cooper, which has made a big difference to the offence as now Zeke isn't the only threat, and defeated Saints on a 10 win streak.  Defence looking strong, it seems they are set up for a playoff push. 

 

Still not sure on Dak though...

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First round picks on WR over the last few years have generally stunk out the place (Cooper actually being one of the few exceptions). If that is the area that Cowboys had planned to use their first round pick on next year though, Cooper may have been viewed as less risk than a rookie.

 

Dez is past it really. Why is Cooper a rental? They'll extend him this off-season (along with Prescott) and then they have him, Prescott and Zeke for the foreseeable.

 

As for the playoffs, I guess last night shows they can compete. 0.800 since signing Cooper, which has made a big difference to the offence as now Zeke isn't the only threat, and defeated Saints on a 10 win streak. Defence looking strong, it seems they are set up for a playoff push.

 

Still not sure on Dak though...

A good summary.

 

Agree on Dak, he holds the ball way too long sometimes and is responsible for too many sacks. The one last night where he fumbled and lost the ball near the New Orleans goal line was one which Dallas were very lucky to get away with. He also overthrew Gallup for what would've been a walk in touchdown.

 

In his favour is that he rarely turns the ball over. For a team that's built around the run, the QB needs to have ball security as his #1 priority. Dak has that.

 

Enjoying watching the Cowboys play right now and that win last night will give them confidence going in to the final stretch of the season.

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And as far as I can tell from the comments and highlights, they were as bad. 13-10 is a pretty pathetic scoreline.

I've watched every play of the game and find your interpretation a bit strange.

 

The Dallas D was immense and the NOLA D was excellent against Zeke. I love two great defences coming up big for their teams.

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I've watched every play of the game and find your interpretation a bit strange.

 

The Dallas D was immense and the NOLA D was excellent against Zeke. I love two great defences coming up big for their teams.

 

From what I've seen Brees had an off day and was throwing wayward. Looked a boring as fuck game.

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Dallas D was immense

 

TOT SOLO SACKS TFL PD QBHTS TD

57      37          2         3    6    6           0

 

 

NAWLINS must have out of this world immense.

 

TOT SOLO SACKS TFL PD QBHTS TD

81       42         7        9     0     8           0

 

:rolleyes:

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  • 2 weeks later...

You're getting awfully excited and setting yourself up for a big fail by harping on about this.

Not really. It was just a ridiculous shout and he was arsey about the trade and Dallas' chances at the time, so he deserves a bit of a slagging about it. He's a player with elite talent and was dismissed by McDoogs as someone who'd make no difference. I'm sure he'd be expecting a slagging given that Cooper has made a massive difference.

 

I reckon Dallas will go 2-1 in the last 3 games, winning the division in the process. Their progression beyond that is hard to predict. If the have to face Seattle, i think they'll lose. I fancy them to beat any of the other Wildcard contenders in Dallas though.

 

I reckon they'd lose in NOLA and LA, should they get beyond the Wildcard round.

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Horrendous performance last night, albeit in a game i did expect them to lose.

 

Still, it'd take a fucker of a turnaround not to make the play-offs. Mainly thanks to the great winning streak they've went on since signing Mr 0.00%.

 

Cool, mortgage the future for a first round exit.

YES!!!

You seem hung up on the 0% as if it is my calculations. 

They may finish above .500 MAY.

 

Unless you think they are winning the Superbowl, please say you do...

 

Try looking at it objectively, rather than thru the lens of the Jones devotee.

 

I find it funny, as it means they are likely to keep the clapper in situ.

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Cool, mortgage the future for a first round exit.

YES!!!

You seem hung up on the 0% as if it is my calculations.

They may finish above .500 MAY.

 

Unless you think they are winning the Superbowl, please say you do...

 

Try looking at it objectively, rather than thru the lens of the Jones devotee.

 

I find it funny, as it means they are likely to keep the clapper in situ.

I keep referencing the 0.00% as it was such an utterly pathetic thing to post, right down to the use of 2 decimal points.

 

I am looking objectively. They got a player with elite talent at their greatest position of need. They paid a high price for it, I agree but let's see what the Raiders turn that #1 in to. There's no guarantees in the draft!

 

I've said in this thread what I think will happen (including a loss last night). You may have missed it as you were in hiding during Dallas' winning run.

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I keep referencing the 0.00% as it was such an utterly pathetic thing to post, right down to the use of 2 decimal points.

 

I am looking objectively. They got a player with elite talent at their greatest position of need. They paid a high price for it, I agree but let's see what the Raiders turn that #1 in to. There's no guarantees in the draft!

 

I've said in this thread what I think will happen (including a loss last night). You may have missed it as you were in hiding during Dallas' winning run.

 

I'm far from a Jones devotee, particularly in relation to his Garret blindness. So we're on the same page on that one. Perhaps you should try looking objectively and read what I actually post...

 

Yeah okay pathetic, I just passed on the information.

 

(So I wanted to wait for this week's updated DVOA numbers to come out.)

 

Now, the whole crux of whether or not this was a good trade was the value of giving up a first rounder for it.

There is no debate that no one else was willing to offer that for Cooper, in addition you keep calling him Elite, that is your opinion but the other teams didn't view it that way and I'd hazard that 30 front office and coaching personnel know more than you or I, I would also note that he didn't make the Pro Bowl team this year. Despite being 'Elite'.

Oh, and as regards the pick itself, if the Oakland Raiders make a complete cunt of it, it doesn't change the opportunity cost for Dallas of giving it up.

The incompetence or otherwise of Oakland is irrelevant to whether or not its a good trade.

 

Now the reason I wanted to wait for the DVOA numbers was to go over the effect of having an 'Elite' player such as Cooper has had on Dallas.

Now they are currently as an offense.

26th in offensive DVOA 

26th in Weighted Offense

26th in the league in points per game

 

See the pattern.

 

The Dallas defense is 4th in scoring defense

9th in DVOA

 

The teams they have beaten this season, Giants, Lions, Jaguars, Eagles (2), Falcons, Redskins, Saints.

One of them is over .500 and the combined record is an eye watering 45-53 and only because of the Saints impressive record.

Its known as passing tired horses.

 

So to recap, the Offense, is poor the defense is good they have beaten one good team and will not win the Superbowl, and yet you're doing cartwheels cos they have given up a first round pick for a non-elite player (probably 12-18 in WR in the league).

 

Oh and you were right that I didn't say anything during the win streak - as you demonstrated in your exchange with Razor - there would have been no point, your answer was simply, we won.

 

The win streak is also likely to mean they keep a terrible head coach and don't look at the front office set up either.

 

They've been brutal since Jimmy Johnson stopped shaping the team. Even Parcells couldn't arrest the decline.

 

I'm sure you'll have some pithy retort,

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Yeah okay pathetic, I just passed on the information.

 

Yup. Indeed it was.

(So I wanted to wait for this week's updated DVOA numbers to come out.)

 

Now, the whole crux of whether or not this was a good trade was the value of giving up a first rounder for it.

There is no debate that no one else was willing to offer that for Cooper, in addition you keep calling him Elite, that is your opinion but the other teams didn't view it that way and I'd hazard that 30 front office and coaching personnel know more than you or I, I would also note that he didn't make the Pro Bowl team this year. Despite being 'Elite'.

I'd hazard to say that the unwillingness for other franchises wasn't to do with Cooper's ability but rather the high price Oakland were asking and the fact the Cooper's contract is due extending and he'll command an elite WR's salary.

 

I'm very surprised that anyone watching him and looking at his production would say he doesn't have elite talent.

Oh, and as regards the pick itself, if the Oakland Raiders make a complete cunt of it, it doesn't change the opportunity cost for Dallas of giving it up.

The incompetence or otherwise of Oakland is irrelevant to whether or not its a good trade.

 

A fair point. However given Dallas' recent draft record, i wouldn't trust them to make the right selection.

Now the reason I wanted to wait for the DVOA numbers was to go over the effect of having an 'Elite' player such as Cooper has had on Dallas.

Now they are currently as an offense.

26th in offensive DVOA

26th in Weighted Offense

26th in the league in points per game

 

See the pattern.

 

The Dallas defense is 4th in scoring defense

9th in DVOA

 

The teams they have beaten this season, Giants, Lions, Jaguars, Eagles (2), Falcons, Redskins, Saints.

One of them is over .500 and the combined record is an eye watering 45-53 and only because of the Saints impressive record.

Its known as passing tired horses.

 

They beat probably the best team in the NFL 3 weeks ago. Given that a record of .500 is likely to get teams in the play-offs this year, it's not that surprising that most teams Dallas have faced are under this mark.

 

I'm comfortable with where Dallas are. You seem to be attempting to build a narrative where i'm saying that Dallas are brilliant and will win the Superbowl. That's false.

 

I think Dallas will win the NFC East and potentially 1 home play-off game (if they have to face Seattle, i think they'll lose). That's it. No Superbowl.

 

Given that they were 3-5 and looking completely shot not too long ago, i think i'm allowed to be happy with where they are right now.

So to recap, the Offense, is poor the defense is good they have beaten one good team and will not win the Superbowl, and yet you're doing cartwheels cos they have given up a first round pick for a non-elite player (probably 12-18 in WR in the league).

Doing cartwheels? Nope. Just glad that Dallas have a high class WR and someone who can open up the field and make the run game a bit easier for Zeke to run the ball effectively.

Oh and you were right that I didn't say anything during the win streak - as you demonstrated in your exchange with Razor - there would have been no point, your answer was simply, we won.

I wasn't even really arguing with Razor about how good Dallas were. He was simply saying that it wasn't a good match, despite having not watched it. I watched it and it was brilliantly entertaining.

 

He also claimed Dallas' D didn't play well. I challenge you to go and rewatch the game or read match reports. Both will show you that Dallas' D was outstanding.

 

The win streak is also likely to mean they keep a terrible head coach and don't look at the front office set up either.

 

They've been brutal since Jimmy Johnson stopped shaping the team. Even Parcells couldn't arrest the decline.

 

I'm sure you'll have some pithy retort,

No "pithy retort", just an attempt to have a proper discussion, without you jumping to extremes.
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