Rape Clause

[Bluto10]

Sounds fair.

Benefit free money for 2 is enough for anyone is it not?

[DD1903]

 

I'd suggest maybe sticking it in front of a few committees and actually voting on it in fucking parliament. Maybe someone would have pointed out how fucking stupid it was and they could have a re-think before making it a law with no parliamentary scrutiny.

Well there is that. However, What would you suggest instead of the clause though?

 

(I'm being devils advocate here)

[craegDAMH]

Well there is that. However, What would you suggest instead of the clause though?

 

(I'm being devils advocate here)

 

I'd get rid of child benefit altogether as part of a complete reform of the benefit system and move to a universal basic income.

 

Failing that I'd leave it as it is.

[DD1903]

 

I'd get rid of child benefit altogether as part of a complete reform of the benefit system and move to a universal basic income.

 

Failing that I'd leave it as it is.

The gov obviously don't think staying as is is sustainable though, hence the changes.

 

I don't the uk moving to the Universal basic income in the near future, with the tories in charge anyway

[daytripping]

Sounds fair.

Benefit free money for 2 is enough for anyone is it not?

 

I'm not getting the outrage either, seems fair enough to me. The rape clause should be easy to prove as someone will have been convicted for it, just give them the police report number.

[craegDAMH]

The gov obviously don't think staying as is is sustainable though, hence the changes.

 

I don't the uk moving to the Universal basic income in the near future, with the tories in charge anyway

 

I agree, but it's more about ideology than what is or isn't sustainable.

[BWG]

A deplorable move from a self serving government led by a cunt that nobody voted for. Imagine that.

[Redforever86]

So everyone who is against this clause thinks some wee ned should be able to have 8 kids, a council house and we all pay for it?

[daytripping]

I do disagree with the poor taking the brunt with the benefit cuts of late, was the bankers that got the Country into debt, not seen any punitive measures taken on that industry, the government appear to only be targeting the poor. My recent brush with the benefit system has left me cold to it all, seems those that pay in struggle to get anything out yet those who have never contributed take advantage of any clause they can, the system is corrupt.

[tiktak]

Further to this I'd add that third child onward the parents need to pay for their education.

 

Also in my manifesto is making convicted criminals pay for their stay in prison. Take anything they own to pay for it then if they still owe once released they pay the rest off when they start working or more likely claiming benefits.

 

Vote Tiktak, you know it makes sense.

[zander]

_{Do the rapists get to see any kid they helped produce in said rapes?}

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I'd get rid of child benefit altogether as part of a complete reform of the benefit system and move to a universal basic income.

I would prefer us to get away from the idea that the Government is anything to do with peoples income in the first place.

 

Id like to see the government concentrate on education, the NHS, fixing the roads etc.

 

Benefit system was a noble idea but has gone awry.

 

A universal basic income isnt a good idea imo. Whatever you give them, it is not appreciated and simply becomes the norm and is then considered a "right".

 

Give a man a free £200 a month and what will it achieve? He will buy a top sky tv package, flashy trainers and fags, then claim his council tax is too high and he cant pay it. The main effect will be to create a generation (his children) who think a free £200 per month is insulting to their dignity and they should get a free £1000 a month.

[vanderark14]

I would prefer us to get away from the idea that the Government is anything to do with peoples income in the first place.Id like to see the government concentrate on education, the NHS, fixing the roads etc.Benefit system was a noble idea but has gone awry.A universal basic income isnt a good idea imo. Whatever you give them, it is not appreciated and simply becomes the norm and is then considered a "right".Give a man a free £200 a month and what will it achieve? He will buy a top sky tv package, flashy trainers and fags, then claim his council tax is too high and he cant pay it. The main effect will be to create a generation (his children) who think a free £200 per month is insulting to their dignity and they should get a free £1000 a month.

A lot of presumptuous crap in your posts as usual, taken straight from the daily mail school of thought. I've no doubt there are clowns who think a benefit is a right but there are plenty who do not.

 

For a start, Getting rid of a benefits system could and more than likely would see an increase in crime because you are leaving people with nothing. You seem to have this one picture where everyone using benefits is a scumbag, there undoubtedly are scumbags on benefits but there are many who need these benefits to get by. Some only temporary and some need them for life. It's a very difficult system to police and it will never be perfect because there will always be some prick willing to screw the system.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

A lot of presumptuous crap in your posts as usual, taken straight from the daily mail school of thought. I've no doubt there are clowns who think a benefit is a right but there are plenty who do not.

Hmmmm, not a great start VDA.....

 

If people think receiving a wage for doing nothing (as per the universal basic income idea) is normal, then of course then would understand that as a "right".

 

For a start, Getting rid of a benefits system could and more than likely would see an increase in crime because you are leaving people with nothing.

Speaking of presumptuous crap, I didnt suggest getting rid of the benefits system. I said it was a noble idea which had gone awry. I did say that I would like to move away from the idea that the Government is the main source, or first port of call, for people looking for an income.

 

However, as regards "leaving people with nothing", they could always get a job. You know, one of the same jobs that we apparently need to bring in 1000s of migrants per year to do instead.

 

You seem to have this one picture where everyone using benefits is a scumbag, there undoubtedly are scumbags on benefits but there are many who need these benefits to get by. Some only temporary and some need them for life.

I didn't comment on benefit recipients either, I speculated what could happen if folk were given large amounts of free money as a basic income.

 

Interestingly the one poster who has said he has had recent experience of investigating the system said people who need a little help are given short shrift, whereas those benefit "lifers" are lavished with money,.

[Bluto10]

He has a point though vda

 

The system should be should be watertight.

Hardly that difficult in this day and age.

 

On the bigger scale, it's nae 1950 anymore, you want an NHS, welfare state and working public services then you have to pay for it.

So cough up more tax.

[Pudgie]

There's 650,000 lone parent households in the UK who aren't in employment.

 

Nearly 9 in 10 couple families with three or more dependent children had either one or both parents working.

 

Is there really going to be that many swicks that it's worth having rape victims and those in abusive relationships humped into a room with a glorified secretary to be judged over whether they were raped or if their partner is abusive?

 

 

 

Wouldn't it be better trying to invest in publicly funded childcare for parents that work? Get more people back to work and have money come into the system that way to pay for it?

 

 

 

Surely to fuck those that have, say, 4 kids and lose their jobs like we've seen happen in Aberdeen deserve help rather than being told that they don't deserve it and their wife is a fucking baby factory!

[Pudgie]

Main point for me is lots of hard working couples don't have a third child because the expenses play a part and they realise the cost so why should lazy unemployed benefit scrounges be able to pump out 6 kids that others pay for.

 

Socialism exists to stifle talent and promote the needs of those who generally don't wish to push themselves.

 

That's why it's historically been the choice of the poor

How much does that happen? Plus, are big families nae seen as a rich thing or is that a thing of the past, or was that never a thing?

 

 

 

A lassie I went to college with, her ambition - and yes, she actually stated this was as high as her ambition got - said she wanted to have kids and live on benefits. Out of every single person I've met that's one person.

[craegDAMH]

I would prefer us to get away from the idea that the Government is anything to do with peoples income in the first place.

 

Id like to see the government concentrate on education, the NHS, fixing the roads etc.

 

Benefit system was a noble idea but has gone awry.

 

A universal basic income isnt a good idea imo. Whatever you give them, it is not appreciated and simply becomes the norm and is then considered a "right".

 

Give a man a free £200 a month and what will it achieve? He will buy a top sky tv package, flashy trainers and fags, then claim his council tax is too high and he cant pay it. The main effect will be to create a generation (his children) who think a free £200 per month is insulting to their dignity and they should get a free £1000 a month.

 

The actual evidence of this where it has been tried has shown this not to be the case.

 

When people think about the idea of a universal income they often think about what they think other people would do instead of what they would do themselves. They somehow assume everyone is going to suddenly decide to live off the state when in fact most people would probably do what they themselves would do.

 

CS, ask yourself what you would do with £500 a month. That's what other people would do with it as well. Seriously, how many people on here would take £6k a year and say, "well, that'll do me, I'm off to call Sky and get some fags"?

 

The happiest countries in the world are those which have higher taxes and bigger welfare. If there is a safety net, people can be more entrepreneurial and take bigger risks.

[DD1903]

How much does that happen? Plus, are big families nae seen as a rich thing or is that a thing of the past, or was that never a thing?

 

 

 

A lassie I went to college with, her ambition - and yes, she actually stated this was as high as her ambition got - said she wanted to have kids and live on benefits. Out of every single person I've met that's one person.

Of course it happens, pudge. Don't be so naive. I regularly deal with individuals who have several children to different partners (male and female). It's the norm in some areas. Vast majority claim, and receive, benefits. They are a huge burden on the public services, yet put little back in to the system

[manboobs109]

Universal basic income is such a good idea it will never happen. At the moment we complain about people not taking minimum wage jobs but there would be a real incentive to if you were able to keep your £150 a week or whatever. It would make a real difference. It could replace all benefits and the savings on administration would be huge. No need to hunt benefit cheats as it would be impossible, you can only get your basic income and thats that. Help for the disabled could be in the form of practical help such as cars, carers, drop in centres etc, people too obese, agoraphobic, alkies etc get fuck all except the basic income, sort yourself out after that. Extra kids? You've got your basic income, need more? Get a job. People like dayts and myself who are told to fuck off are at least sure we'll have our basic income(which we've been paying for in taxes anyway)

[Pudgie]

Of course it happens, pudge. Don't be so naive. I regularly deal with individuals who have several children to different partners (male and female). It's the norm in some areas. Vast majority claim, and receive, benefits. They are a huge burden on the public services, yet put little back in to the system

I don't doubt, and certainly believe that it regularly happens but I very much doubt that it's the norm in areas. These people will take the maximum. This won't stop them having two and going on the pill. Changing mentalities and clamping down on those that do take the piss is the way to go, not punishing those who may genuinely need help. I've planned for the last few years to have 3 kids. Will I now? I'm really nae sure. If I have 2 daughters and decide not to risk it, that's the family line fucked.

[beer gut]

I don't doubt, and certainly believe that it regularly happens but I very much doubt that it's the norm in areas. These people will take the maximum. This won't stop them having two and going on the pill. Changing mentalities and clamping down on those that do take the piss is the way to go, not punishing those who may genuinely need help. I've planned for the last few years to have 3 kids. Will I now? I'm really nae sure. If I have 2 daughters and decide not to risk it, that's the family line fucked.

That's the point though is it. It will make them think about having a 3rd and a 4th because it will have consequences on them financially like the rest of us.

[Pudgie]

That's the point though is it. It will make them think about having a 3rd and a 4th because it will have consequences on them financially like the rest of us.

But then the problem just becomes single parents with 2 kids. I'm nae even sure that I know, or even know of a single parent with 3+ kids that doesn't work.

[beer gut]

But then the problem just becomes single parents with 2 kids. I'm nae even sure that I know, or even know of a single parent with 3+ kids that doesn't work.

Jesus you must've lead a sheltered life. I have family who have numerous kids and have lived mostly on benefits so i know 1st hand what goes on. I have fell out with some over it because they take the complete piss. I told one of them they should apply for a job at the council because they know the benefits system better than the folk on the other end of the fone.

[DD1903]

I don't doubt, and certainly believe that it regularly happens but I very much doubt that it's the norm in areas. These people will take the maximum. This won't stop them having two and going on the pill. Changing mentalities and clamping down on those that do take the piss is the way to go, not punishing those who may genuinely need help. I've planned for the last few years to have 3 kids. Will I now? I'm really nae sure. If I have 2 daughters and decide not to risk it, that's the family line fucked.

Doubt all you want pudge. The schemes in Glasgow are quite something.

 

As for whether you'll have 3 kids now... You might not because you won't get a few quid child support?! Really?

[mcdougall(4)]

Universal basic income is such a good idea it will never happen. At the moment we complain about people not taking minimum wage jobs but there would be a real incentive to if you were able to keep your £150 a week or whatever. It would make a real difference. It could replace all benefits and the savings on administration would be huge. No need to hunt benefit cheats as it would be impossible, you can only get your basic income and thats that. Help for the disabled could be in the form of practical help such as cars, carers, drop in centres etc, people too obese, agoraphobic, alkies etc get fuck all except the basic income, sort yourself out after that. Extra kids? You've got your basic income, need more? Get a job. People like dayts and myself who are told to fuck off are at least sure we'll have our basic income(which we've been paying for in taxes anyway)

 

If you take a minimum wage job, you're making roughly 15k a year (take home of 1113 on a 37.5 hour week)

There are still tax credits etc

Not rich but still surely enough to live on.

£1,113

[craegDAMH]

Do people really think the state providing £7 a day to parents to make sure their kid doesn't starve is a massive problem?

[manboobs109]

 

 

If you take a minimum wage job, you're making roughly 15k a year (take home of 1113 on a 37.5 hour week)

There are still tax credits etc

Not rich but still surely enough to live on. £1,113

Aye but if you're losing housing benefit, council tax benefit, JSA etc it normally means you are out of pocket. If you keep your basic income, which is the only benefit remember, it makes it well worth your while.

[beer gut]

Do people really think the state providing £7 a day to parents to make sure their kid doesn't starve is a massive problem?

If the kid is starving they could either:

 

1. Cancel their mobile phone contract
2. Cancel Sky TV
3. Stop smoking

[Clydeside_Sheep]

What has been increasingly annoying me about this is all the furore that "every baby is entitled to financial support" yet the same moralists sit back in silence over abortion.

 

So, a life is worth less than a few quid off the DSS. Disgusting.

 

The public morality mirrors that of the so-called justice system: anything goes with barely a murmur, life is cheap, but - by fuck - the minute someone thinks they are losing out on money, there is fucking hell to pay.