The Frustration Of The Mcinnes Era So Far

[Jocky Balboa]

I'll no doubt have my detractors for this, but in the midst of so many love-ins regarding Derek McInnes time in charge thus far, I think a more balanced take should at least be considered here. Let me start by saying I am very grateful to Derek for what he has done so far, in restoring respectability, and I hope we continue to improve for the rest of his tenure here, however long that may be. Nevertheless, I believe that (so far) while he undoubtedly qualifies as a GOOD AFC manager, he is (so far) far from being a GREAT one.

 

A few points which should be noted:

 

1. He inherited a club which was on its knees both on and off the park, having had numerous consecutive 9th place finishes and going nowhere. Starting from such a low point, there was plenty of scope for improvement, which he commendably did.

 

2. While undoubtedly a better manager than Balsawood, the latter had a much, much stronger playing field up against us. Conversely, we have been in a league firstly without R*****s and then without them and both Edinburgh teams. In a severely weakened (comparatively with previous eras) league, we have not had much stiff opposition.

 

3. He did very well in his first league season, but contrary to popular belief, it was not Masonic refereeing or Motherwell cheating that robbed us of runners-up spot. We floundered badly in the last quarter of the season and generally were very inconsistent at home throughout. 2nd was there for the taking, but we blew it.

 

3. Our failure to kill teams off in games we dominated cost us the SC semi... AND meant we needed penalties to win the League Cup against a competent but ordinary ICT (in all the euphoria surrounding our first trophy in 19yrs, have we considered what the reaction would have been, had we lost that final??)

 

4. In his second season, we gave a very good account of ourselves in Europe and mounted an even more credible league challenge until April, but again floundered badly in the final quarter (with the Euro and cup exits happening when they did, we had no great backlog of fixtures, either)

 

5. We relied very heavily on Rooney's goals last season. Where would we have been, had he been injured for any length of time?

 

6. Our Euro home record this season has seen us without a single win at Pittodrie (1 in 6 over the last 2 seasons). Domestically, our home record is far too inconsistent and given our great away efforts, is all the more disappointing. We need Pittodrie to be a fortress once more.

 

7. Substitutions - or lack thereof. Too often, McInnes has been unable to change a game, often through tactical predictability and/or not making substitutions, or doing so too late.

 

8. Further to the previous point, being 2-1 down from the first leg last night, can anyone explain why by far our greatest goal threat was on the bench for 70min? They may be a big-spending, competent side, but unless this Kazakh team go on to do very well in the Group Stages, it's safe to say we have lost to another run of the mill team whom we should be beating if our aspirations are to be realised.

 

Conclusion - We have a good manager, who has done much to be admired, but we really must be addressing our home record, tactical predictability and be much more clinical in the final 3rd. Whether McInnes will go down in history as a GREAT AFC manager, as opposed to very good... this coming season will be the decider.

[Poodler]

It's only a game min, I wouldn't worry too much about it

[The Boofon]

Mental thread.

[StandFree1982]

 

Sack McInnes. He's been shite so far.

 

First Cup win in 20 years

narrowly missed out on 2nd in first full season

2nd in second, having kept up with Celtic till May

Battled well in Europe against some very good sides.

 

I expected much better to be honest, especially after the pedigree left by McGhee and Brown.

 

Sack the board.

 

I read up to the point where you said about considering what the consequences would have been had we lost the final. Fuck me min, can't you just be happy we DID win it? intsead of thinking "But...what if we hadn't?" which is completely pointless"

 

I also mentioned in another thread that if we lost against Kairat, there would be folk going "Can't believe we got beat my no marks from Kazakhstan" and I was correct. People can't comprehend that teams who they haven't heard of might still be very good.

[Guest]

It is not possible for AFC to win the league.

 

For reasons numerous and obvious.

 

On talksport, they said the SPL was over when Celtic scored the first v. Ross County.

 

That's not defeatist. It's realistic.

[The Boofon]

It is not possible for AFC to win the league.

For reasons numerous and obvious.

On talksport, they said the SPL was over when Celtic scored the first v. Ross County.

That's not defeatist. It's realistic.

 

Nonsense.

[rossafc92]

I'll no doubt have my detractors for this, but in the midst of so many love-ins regarding Derek McInnes time in charge thus far, I think a more balanced take should at least be considered here. Let me start by saying I am very grateful to Derek for what he has done so far, in restoring respectability, and I hope we continue to improve for the rest of his tenure here, however long that may be. Nevertheless, I believe that (so far) while he undoubtedly qualifies as a GOOD AFC manager, he is (so far) far from being a GREAT one.

 

A few points which should be noted:

 

1. He inherited a club which was on its knees both on and off the park, having had numerous consecutive 9th place finishes and going nowhere. Starting from such a low point, there was plenty of scope for improvement, which he commendably did.

 

2. While undoubtedly a better manager than Balsawood, the latter had a much, much stronger playing field up against us. Conversely, we have been in a league firstly without R*****s and then without them and both Edinburgh teams. In a severely weakened (comparatively with previous eras) league, we have not had much stiff opposition.

 

3. He did very well in his first league season, but contrary to popular belief, it was not Masonic refereeing or Motherwell cheating that robbed us of runners-up spot. We floundered badly in the last quarter of the season and generally were very inconsistent at home throughout. 2nd was there for the taking, but we blew it.

 

3. Our failure to kill teams off in games we dominated cost us the SC semi... AND meant we needed penalties to win the League Cup against a competent but ordinary ICT (in all the euphoria surrounding our first trophy in 19yrs, have we considered what the reaction would have been, had we lost that final??)

 

4. In his second season, we gave a very good account of ourselves in Europe and mounted an even more credible league challenge until April, but again floundered badly in the final quarter (with the Euro and cup exits happening when they did, we had no great backlog of fixtures, either)

 

5. We relied very heavily on Rooney's goals last season. Where would we have been, had he been injured for any length of time?

 

6. Our Euro home record this season has seen us without a single win at Pittodrie (1 in 6 over the last 2 seasons). Domestically, our home record is far too inconsistent and given our great away efforts, is all the more disappointing. We need Pittodrie to be a fortress once more.

 

7. Substitutions - or lack thereof. Too often, McInnes has been unable to change a game, often through tactical predictability and/or not making substitutions, or doing so too late.

 

8. Further to the previous point, being 2-1 down from the first leg last night, can anyone explain why by far our greatest goal threat was on the bench for 70min? They may be a big-spending, competent side, but unless this Kazakh team go on to do very well in the Group Stages, it's safe to say we have lost to another run of the mill team whom we should be beating if our aspirations are to be realised.

 

Conclusion - We have a good manager, who has done much to be admired, but we really must be addressing our home record, tactical predictability and be much more clinical in the final 3rd. Whether McInnes will go down in history as a GREAT AFC manager, as opposed to very good... this coming season will be the decider.

 

2. Can only play who's in our league. You could argue that more stiff tests would bring out even more in us.

 

3. Right to say that too much blame lay with the refereeing in not finishing 2nd in 13/14, and that our league form tailed off towards the end of the season. But need to remember it was McInnes' first full season and he was, by his own admission, still a bit away from getting "his" team. It acted as a good learning curve for the following season anyway, imo.

 

4. Unfair to say we "floundered badly". The 4-0 defeat to Celtic knocked the stuffing out of us a bit, but we still went on to claim 24 points from that third round of fixtures. Our post split form means nothing considering a lot of the squad were rested for most of the games.

 

5. You could pose that question to almost any team. We would have adapted without Rooney some way or another. Fortunately he's usually always fit and we could use him. We're not really able to make plans for a situation like that with our budget. In saying that, I do think we're much better equipped to cope this season than last in that area. Could quite easily have McLean filling in for Rooney if worst came to worst.

 

6. Difficult to read much into that. Games we haven't won at home include a 0-0 vs Groningen that turned out to really help us in the away leg; Sociedad at home where we just had to go for it and came up against much stronger opposition; Shkendija in a game where 0-0 got us through; Rijeka in a game where we were already 3-0 up; last night where the away team were, imo, strong opposition and were able to hold on and be safe in the knowledge that we really had to score the first goal. 'Poor' home form in Europe is as much down to circumstance as anything else. In only two of those games did we have to win, and in only one did we really have a realistic chance.

 

7. I think McInnes has made as many good substitutions coming at good times as he has poor ones or none at all at the right times. Poor decisions on that front that stick out to me are St Johnstone at Ibrox and Well final day of 13/14. But then in the past few weeks we've seen his subs help us to a 3-0 away win in Rijeka, getting the away goal in Almaty, and bringing about a spark for us to win the opening league game on Sunday.

 

8. Just because Rooney's our top scorer doesn't mean he's always the best option to play. Rijeka home and away very good examples of when we Goodwillie's the better option. Rooney will score a healthy amount of goals again this season, of that there's little doubt. But the majority of these will be tap-ins etc against sides below us. It's exactly what we need for most games but not all.

 

All that said, there's no doubt that McInnes and his team can keep improving. He's acknowledged that himself. There seems to be a steely determination about McInnes that suggests he really wants to make his mark at this club. If that's to happen, there's still some way to go. It's genuinely exciting, and oh so much better than most of what I've ever had to put up with as a Dons fan.

[The Hulk]

In a severely weakened (comparatively with previous eras) league, we have not had much stiff opposition.

 

Let's not peddle this one out any more, Hibs & Hearts were relegated on merit. The best players in Scotland still play in the top division.

We're the second best team in Scotland and when we beat Celtic on 12th September we'll prove we can go one better this season. If we beat Celtic twice this season we have it in our own hands. We can definitely win this league.

[muttonhumper]

People can't comprehend that teams who they haven't heard of might still be very good.

 

Point is though...they weren't.

 

Absolutely nowhere near "very good".

[Dave Bus]

Rooney is useless in Europe, that's why he only got 20 mins on

[fine-n-dandy]

Only frustrating thing for me from the McInnes era is the fact that Clangers got a new deal from him.

He's now in the process of rectifying that massive fuck up.

 

Also he needs to sign May & a creative mid that can cross a ball past the first man min (that's fkn frustrating)

[ebbe]

As I said yesterday, he just needs more belief in himself and in his players. Had we had this from the off yesterday we'd of pumped that Kazakh mob 3-1. They were pretty average I thought, certainly no better than the tims.

[Guest]

Nonsense.

I'm only talking about this season.

 

Hope I'm wrong but I'm so not wrong.

 

So fucking obvious how much weaker we are than them.

 

McInnes ain't pulling rabbits out of hats.

 

Neither is he able nor does he want to.

 

Too fucking soft. Get a wage. Hang on as long as you can. Fuck achieving anything. Too risky to try.

[RAZOR]

Wow.

 

Just wow.

[boboisared]

I'm only talking about this season.

 

Hope I'm wrong but I'm so not wrong.

 

So fucking obvious how much weaker we are than them.

 

McInnes ain't pulling rabbits out of hats.

 

Neither is he able nor does he want to.

 

Too fucking soft. Get a wage. Hang on as long as you can. Fuck achieving anything. Too risky to try.

Celtic haven't looked great so far.

[Guest]

I think it's great to question him. This is the nature of kaizen.

 

The only point I'm arguing is that he is incapable of winning the SPL this season, for many reasons, the majority outwith his control.

 

We are all extremely grateful for our first competent manager for decades. Nobody's not trusting him.

 

And much as he is learning from mistakes, he makes too many of them TO WIN THE SPL IN MAY.

 

Hopefully he develops and gets better and can bring us success. He's not ready yet.

[Guest]

Celtic are shite bobo. But they are less shite than us.

[tommo1903]

Allow me to respond to a few of the more nonsensical points:

 

2. While undoubtedly a better manager than Balsawood SOUND THE BANTOOOR KLAXON,

 

 

3. He did very well in his first league season, but contrary to popular belief, it was not Masonic refereeing or Motherwell cheating that robbed us of runners-up spot. We floundered badly in the last quarter of the season and generally were very inconsistent at home throughout. 2nd was there for the taking, but we blew it. Alternatively, going from 8th to 3rd and winning our first trophy in 19 years is an improvement....no?

 

3. Our failure to kill teams off in games we dominated cost us the SC semi... AND meant we needed penalties to win the League Cup against a competent but ordinary ICT (in all the euphoria surrounding our first trophy in 19yrs, have we considered what the reaction would have been, had we lost that final??) Yes but...but we didn't.

 

4. In his second season, we gave a very good account of ourselves in Europe and mounted an even more credible league challenge until April, but again floundered badly in the final quarter (with the Euro and cup exits happening when they did, we had no great backlog of fixtures, either) So...an improvement then aye?

 

5. We relied very heavily on Rooney's goals last season. Where would we have been, had he been injured for any length of time? Would you have a wife if you could suck yourself off?

[Dynamo]

What a ridiculous thread.

[boboisared]

Celtic are shite bobo. But they are less shite than us.

I don't think we are shite Rocket, maybe guys like yourself were spoiled with the greatness of the teams of the late 70's, 80's and even early 90's. My first season was 94-95, relegation playoff at East End Park. Aside from some flashes of genius over the years, this is by far the best Aberdeen team I've seen.

 

I think we are far better than we were, and that Celtic are worse than they were. Maybe it's just a generation thing.

[Guest]

I don't think we are shite Rocket, maybe guys like yourself were spoiled with the greatness of the teams of the late 70's, 80's and even early 90's. My first season was 94-95, relegation playoff at East End Park. Aside from some flashes of genius over the years, this is by far the best Aberdeen team I've seen.

 

I think we are far better than we were, and that Celtic are worse than they were. Maybe it's just a generation thing.

You're right. I over-use exaggeration to provoke.

 

AFC are the second best team in Scotland. It's the overall standard that I object to. Yes we were spolied in the 80's but even in the 60's and 70's, we had fight and flair and competence and passion and we thought it could all come together and we stood a chance.

 

The game has been steadily getting worse due to inequitable wealth distribution and a lack of investment. Milne has hardly helped the cause. In our lost decades, he didn't do the maths. Every extra 1,000 through the gates makes a huge difference.

[minijc]

His home record in Europe is fucking terrible.

[Foster14]

I'll no doubt have my detractors for this, but in the midst of so many love-ins regarding Derek McInnes time in charge thus far, I think a more balanced take should at least be considered here. Let me start by saying I am very grateful to Derek for what he has done so far, in restoring respectability, and I hope we continue to improve for the rest of his tenure here, however long that may be. Nevertheless, I believe that (so far) while he undoubtedly qualifies as a GOOD AFC manager, he is (so far) far from being a GREAT one.

 

A few points which should be noted:

 

1. He inherited a club which was on its knees both on and off the park,

 

Get to here and then a lot of the stuff that follows is non-sensical. Of course this season he has to kick on from last (he'll be the first to admit that). To kick on, we need to see an improvement in results (the performances were there in large parts of games) against Celtic and improvement in the cups after the disappointing exits last year, but by in large, you can't really criticise where the club is now compared to where it was 2 years ago, and in terms of the day to day, what we see, a great deal of that goes down to what McInnes has done. The rest of the credit goes down to the improved non-football management of the club (Yule primarily) and improved financial position (Donald primarily).

[Foster14]

His home record in Europe is fucking terrible.

 

Possibly, but then one defeat against a team that bought a striker for €10m in the summer doesn't really equate to a level playing field and draws against sides that the Macedonians apart, are on far superior financial footing than we are, doesn't strike me as a bad record. Riga is a bit of a red herring but:

 

Home P6 W1 D4 L1

Away P6 W3 D1 L2

 

Is not something to complain about, given some of the teams we've played.

[fine-n-dandy]

Celtic haven't looked great so far.

Already had the benefit of a "soft" penalty & their keeper only getting booked when it was a certain red card & at only 1-0 at the time (after scoring their soft penalty).

 

Should tally up all the gifts they are given in games throughout the season. Just to see how much they add up.

[fine-n-dandy]

His home record in Europe is fucking terrible.

His away record is pretty fkn decent. Better than any other in the SPFL I'd guess.

[Guest]

Tannadice worried me. Rooney was fat and slow and obviously hadn't been worked hard enough. Flood was ineffectual. We were lucky to get 3 points, against a very shit opposition with nothing positive to look forward to.

 

Shinnie, Quinn and Ward are excellent acquisitions. As was MacLean last season. I go against the norm but I think Cammy Smith is coming on great so these are all pass marks for the manager, which lets face it, is his fucking job.

 

The overall product on the pitch hasn't proved near enough to win the SPL, even against a weak Celtic, although they got a whole lot stronger up front this year. Ciftci will be top scorer this season. By far.

[Foster14]

Already had the benefit of a "soft" penalty & their keeper only getting booked when it was a certain red card & at only 1-0 at the time (after scoring their soft penalty).

 

Should tally up all the gifts they are given in games throughout the season. Just to see how much they add up.

 

Boy should have been sent off for Ross County at the penalty though...

[Sheeptastic]

I'll no doubt have my detractors for this, but in the midst of so many love-ins regarding Derek McInnes time in charge thus far, I think a more balanced take should at least be considered here. Let me start by saying I am very grateful to Derek for what he has done so far, in restoring respectability, and I hope we continue to improve for the rest of his tenure here, however long that may be. Nevertheless, I believe that (so far) while he undoubtedly qualifies as a GOOD AFC manager, he is (so far) far from being a GREAT one.

 

A few points which should be noted:

 

1. He inherited a club which was on its knees both on and off the park, having had numerous consecutive 9th place finishes and going nowhere. Starting from such a low point, there was plenty of scope for improvement, which he commendably did.

 

2. While undoubtedly a better manager than Balsawood, the latter had a much, much stronger playing field up against us. Conversely, we have been in a league firstly without R*****s and then without them and both Edinburgh teams. In a severely weakened (comparatively with previous eras) league, we have not had much stiff opposition.

 

3. He did very well in his first league season, but contrary to popular belief, it was not Masonic refereeing or Motherwell cheating that robbed us of runners-up spot. We floundered badly in the last quarter of the season and generally were very inconsistent at home throughout. 2nd was there for the taking, but we blew it.

 

3. Our failure to kill teams off in games we dominated cost us the SC semi... AND meant we needed penalties to win the League Cup against a competent but ordinary ICT (in all the euphoria surrounding our first trophy in 19yrs, have we considered what the reaction would have been, had we lost that final??)

 

4. In his second season, we gave a very good account of ourselves in Europe and mounted an even more credible league challenge until April, but again floundered badly in the final quarter (with the Euro and cup exits happening when they did, we had no great backlog of fixtures, either)

 

5. We relied very heavily on Rooney's goals last season. Where would we have been, had he been injured for any length of time?

 

6. Our Euro home record this season has seen us without a single win at Pittodrie (1 in 6 over the last 2 seasons). Domestically, our home record is far too inconsistent and given our great away efforts, is all the more disappointing. We need Pittodrie to be a fortress once more.

 

7. Substitutions - or lack thereof. Too often, McInnes has been unable to change a game, often through tactical predictability and/or not making substitutions, or doing so too late.

 

8. Further to the previous point, being 2-1 down from the first leg last night, can anyone explain why by far our greatest goal threat was on the bench for 70min? They may be a big-spending, competent side, but unless this Kazakh team go on to do very well in the Group Stages, it's safe to say we have lost to another run of the mill team whom we should be beating if our aspirations are to be realised.

 

Conclusion - We have a good manager, who has done much to be admired, but we really must be addressing our home record, tactical predictability and be much more clinical in the final 3rd. Whether McInnes will go down in history as a GREAT AFC manager, as opposed to very good... this coming season will be the decider.

This isn't really that balanced. Qualifying eight points worth of criticism with 'he's a good manager not a great one' isn't balanced. Fair enough, that's your opinion but just come out and say you have some criticisms or concerns of the current tenure.

 

I don't really agree with a lot of it:

 

1. You can't have a go at him for turning a shambles into a success. What you have outlined in this point is actually an achievement that you have somehow slanted into a criticism. We were so bad that he had to improve? Not really. He could have easily done a McGhee if he was, well, if he was Mark McGhee.

 

2. He can only compete against what's put in front of him. It's not his fault the Rangers cheated for years. We should have done better against Celtic last season fair enough but can't have a go at our manager for the fact the Rangers, Hibs and Hearts weren't in the league last season.

 

3. We didn't lose the final. We won it. Not to mention we killed off teams on the run up to the League Cup Final.

 

4. We didn't perform well in big games. Mainly the ones against Celtic. Probably a justified criticism. We can improve on that though.

 

5. He wasn't injured and it's okay for us to have a goalscorer. It's a good thing. Additionally we've shown in games without him so far this season that we are still capable of beating teams.

 

6. Agree that we need to be better at home.

 

7. Timing and personnel of substitutions was definitely an issue last season but this has improved as time has gone on. Usually correlates with us bringing in better players and having better depth.

 

8. Look at how well Goodwillie has performed this season. His recent form, with Hayes, McLean and McGinn behind him was justifiable to me. Those four are capable of creating chances but we weren't strong enough as a team in the final third last night. The problem wouldn't have been solved with Rooney on the pitch. We have to create opportunities before we can score from them.

 

In short, I think you're panicking a bit. Last night was unfortunate but I think we will still have an impressive season and an improved one as well.

[fine-n-dandy]

 

Boy should have been sent off for Ross County at the penalty though...

Don't think so. Wasn't a direct goal scoring chance (keeper & defender in way) where as Counties was, as was an open goal had Gordon not taken him out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/33748616

Celtics penalty (don't get me wrong) i'd have been wanting it myself had it been against us but in all honesty it was a wee clip from Griffiths deliberately trailing his foot to get caught & then dive. Ref "could" also have penalised Griffiths for it & had it been the other end I wouldn't have been surprised to see Gollum doing so.