Aberdeen sack Derek McInnes

[V for Vendetta]

The more this deranged shoofta shitcunt bangs on about McInnes the more I realise McInnes is not too bad.

[YorkDon]

Heart and head York don

 

Head says sensibly invest as now to ensure 3rd or better, bed in Kingsford (training and stadium) and look to qualify for uefa group stages what, 1or 2 years in 5 as a minimum.

 

Heart says fuck the cheeks, do what it takes and win the bastard thing.

It’ll be option 1 as it’s the sensible thing,and the right thing.

Celtic can outspend us,so unless anything was to come from serious US investment, we’d be throwing money away.

[Chewie37]

I’m hoping that the move to our own training facility and stadium actually forces us to become a European style club where the setup is such that the manager is basically just the first team coach and can be fairly easily replaced without too much disruption to the club. But we’ll see if it’s possibke to fuck that up I suppose

[Sonoftherock]

"Done only what he should have" is a strange argument

 

First of all, I would argue he has slightly over achieved

 

Even then, a manager doing what they should do is to be lauded, not criticised

 

Plenty of teams wish they had a manager who achieved what he should

 

Unless of course you are saying he should be doing better than is actually possible?

 

Just trying to make an objective assessment Frankie!  Modern football is governed overwhelmingly by finances.  I think any sane individual cannot argue that point.  However, given this is AFC Chat, I expect a few to attempt to do so...

 

So, we can make an assessment of McInnes performance, based on finances and available budget:

 

2012-13: McInnes has only been in the job for a few months, so not fair to judge.

2013-14: 3rd (2nd budget)

2014-15: 2nd (2nd budget)

2015-16: 2nd (2nd budget)

2016-17: 2nd (3rd budget)

2017-18: 2nd (3rd budget)

2018-19: ? (3rd budget)

 

On the basis of 5 full seasons in charge, you can see that performance based on finances, is close to par.  2 seasons meeting expectation, 1 season slightly below and 2 season slightly above.  2016-17 is a difficult season to quantify as Sevco had just been promoted to Premier League and were an absolute basket case, still in the process of finding their feet.  Should we have expected them immediately to reclaim 2nd, or should they get a years grace?  I don't think anyone can argue that Derek hasn't done a competent job in the League.  In response to your first point @@Millertime, he's restored Aberdeen to where they should be, based on finances.  2016-17 is the kicker and probably pushes McInnes 'slightly above expectations'.

 

The Cups are much harder to interpret... where the basket case of Sevco fit in here, I don't know.  However, the question is, in 5 and a half seasons, where does 1 League Cup win (2013-14) sit?  I'm trying to be objective here, but I think we should have expected more, from a team with our available resources.  As the second best team in the country, should we reasonably have expected to beat celtic in one of those three finals, in a one-off game?  Maybe asking a bit much.... or maybe not?  However, during those 5 and a half seasons, Ross County, Inverness CT, Hibernian and St. Johnstone have all lifted silverware.  Should we have taken a greater share of the silverware taken out by the 'diddy clubs'? 

 

So at the moment I'm tentatively arguing that we've underachieved in the cup competitions, and that we have achieved slightly above par in the league competitions.  You do have to acknowledge that in March 2013 when McInnes took over, we were a complete basketcase.  From languishing in the bottom six in March 2013, by May 2014 we'd finished 3rd place in the league.  He turned things around in a just over a year.  Just over a year is a long time in football, you see down south, a number of managers only getting 6 months... however, he definitely deserves credit for the initial intervention.

 

Overall, I'd say McInnes has done a good job.  He's proven himself to be a competent manger, capable of delivering expectations.  He is, however, certainly nothing special.  Which brings me back to my original point... which i absolutely stand by:

 

 

Conversely, I think this is one of the major reasons some can't see past him!

 

We've been treated with a revolving door of retards, pretty much since Willie Miller departed.  That's 25 years of appointing turkey after turkey.  A large number of Aberdeen supporters have only known imbeciles working in the dugout at Pittodrie, until McInnes has arrived.  The board have to shoulder the blame for this gross incompetence.  However, this has created the false illusion that McInnes is a messiah in the minds of some supporters.  In reality he neither the messiah, nor a Turkey. 

 

Looking objectively, Derek has pretty much had the runaway second highest budget of any manager in Scotland, until last season, when Rangers upped the ante.  In reality he's been about par, for his tenure.  We've performed as we should really.  Although many would argue we should have done better than 1 league cup in the years without Rangers (and Hearts and Hibs for a while).  Derek's done a solid job - but he's nothing special.

 

If we're going to continue to have the third highest budget in the Scotland, a competent board should be identify a suitable successor who can help us to build into the future.   'A competent board' is obviously the kicker here!

 

[KidCreole]

Just trying to make an objective assessment Frankie!  Modern football is governed overwhelmingly by finances.  I think any sane individual cannot argue that point.  However, given this is AFC Chat, I expect a few to attempt to do so...

 

So, we can make an assessment of McInnes performance, based on finances and available budget:

 

2012-13: McInnes has only been in the job for a few months, so not fair to judge.

2013-14: 3rd (2nd budget)

2014-15: 2nd (2nd budget)

2015-16: 2nd (2nd budget)

2016-17: 2nd (2nd budget)

2017-18: 2nd (3rd budget)

2018-19: ? (3rd budget)

 

On the basis of 5 full seasons in charge, you can see that performance based on finances, is exactly par.  3 seasons meeting expectation, 1 season slightly below and 1 season slightly above.  I don't think anyone can argue that Derek hasn't done a competent job in the League.  In response to your first point @@Millertime, he's restored Aberdeen to where they should be, based on finances.

 

The Cups are much harder to interpret... where the basket case of Sevco fit in here, I don't know.  However, the question is, in 5 and a half seasons, where does 1 League Cup win (2013-14) sit?  I'm trying to be objective here, but I think we should have expected more, from a team with our available resources.  As the second best team in the country, should we reasonably have expected to beat celtic in one of those three finals, in a one-off game?  Maybe asking a bit much.... or maybe not?  However, during those 5 and a half seasons, Ross County, Inverness CT, Hibernian and St. Johnstone have all lifted silverware.  Should we have taken a greater share of silverware taken out by the 'diddy clubs'? 

 

So at the moment I'm tentatively arguing that we've underachieved in the cup competitions, and that we have achieved par in the league competitions.  It might appear that I'm erring towards McInnes having underachieved overall... however, I do acknowledge that in March 2013 when McInnes took over, we were a complete basketcase.  From languishing in the bottom six in March 2013, by May 2014 we'd finished 3rd place in the league.  He turned things around in a just over a year.  Just over a year is a long time in football, you see down south, a number of managers only getting 6 months... however, he definitely deserves credit for the initial intervention.

 

Overall, I'd say McInnes has done a good job.  He's proven himself to be a competent manger, capable of delivering expectations.  He is, however, certainly nothing special.  Which brings me back to my original point... which i absolutely stand by:

great post. its not so much do we get rid of him but can we replace him with someone better , the same applies to any member of the club, As your above post states he is doing his job and compared to prior managers thats a rare commodity, So instead of saying D.M oot the nay sayers should be saying D.M should be replaced by... 

[Hoppy]

Just trying to make an objective assessment Frankie! Modern football is governed overwhelmingly by finances. I think any sane individual cannot argue that point. However, given this is AFC Chat, I expect a few to attempt to do so...

 

So, we can make an assessment of McInnes performance, based on finances and available budget:

 

2012-13: McInnes has only been in the job for a few months, so not fair to judge.

2013-14: 3rd (2nd budget)

2014-15: 2nd (2nd budget)

2015-16: 2nd (2nd budget)

2016-17: 2nd (2nd budget)

2017-18: 2nd (3rd budget)

2018-19: ? (3rd budget)

 

On the basis of 5 full seasons in charge, you can see that performance based on finances, is exactly par. 3 seasons meeting expectation, 1 season slightly below and 1 season slightly above. I don't think anyone can argue that Derek hasn't done a competent job in the League. In response to your first point @@Millertime, he's restored Aberdeen to where they should be, based on finances.

 

The Cups are much harder to interpret... where the basket case of Sevco fit in here, I don't know. However, the question is, in 5 and a half seasons, where does 1 League Cup win (2013-14) sit? I'm trying to be objective here, but I think we should have expected more, from a team with our available resources. As the second best team in the country, should we reasonably have expected to beat celtic in one of those three finals, in a one-off game? Maybe asking a bit much.... or maybe not? However, during those 5 and a half seasons, Ross County, Inverness CT, Hibernian and St. Johnstone have all lifted silverware. Should we have taken a greater share of silverware taken out by the 'diddy clubs'?

 

So at the moment I'm tentatively arguing that we've underachieved in the cup competitions, and that we have achieved par in the league competitions. It might appear that I'm erring towards McInnes having underachieved overall... however, I do acknowledge that in March 2013 when McInnes took over, we were a complete basketcase. From languishing in the bottom six in March 2013, by May 2014 we'd finished 3rd place in the league. He turned things around in a just over a year. Just over a year is a long time in football, you see down south, a number of managers only getting 6 months... however, he definitely deserves credit for the initial intervention.

 

Overall, I'd say McInnes has done a good job. He's proven himself to be a competent manger, capable of delivering expectations. He is, however, certainly nothing special. Which brings me back to my original point... which i absolutely stand by:

We had the 3rd highest budget in 2016/2017

[MMG]

2012-13: McInnes has only been in the job for a few months, so not fair to judge.

2013-14: 3rd (2nd budget)

2014-15: 2nd (2nd budget)

2015-16: 2nd (2nd budget)

2016-17: 2nd (2nd budget)

2017-18: 2nd (3rd budget)

 

Sorry, there’s no way I’m accepting we had a bigger budget than Rangers in 16/17.

[Sonoftherock]

great post. its not so much do we get rid of him but can we replace him with someone better , the same applies to any member of the club, As your above post states he is doing his job and compared to prior managers thats a rare commodity, So instead of saying D.M oot the nay sayers should be saying D.M should be replaced by... 

 

It's not the fans job to appoint managers.  Our chairman and the board of directors are in charge of appointments.  That is their job. That is their responsibility.  Fans and supporters can have opinions, but only the board can accept applications, or identify and approach suitable candidates.  Then you have the interview process, due diligence, etc... this is standard fare for companies the length and breadth of the capitalist world.  It should be bread and butter.  Appoint someone who can do the job.

 

Why did it take over 20 years for our board to follow up the appointment of Willie Miller, with another competent, fit for purpose individual?  Why were they able to get away with this gross management of the club? 

 

This is a major worry for me and it really shouldn't be!

[Sonoftherock]

We had the 3rd highest budget in 2016/2017

 

 

Sorry, there’s no way I’m accepting we had a bigger budget than Rangers in 16/17.

 

Accepted.  I'll edit the contents of my post.  But they were certainly a basket case back then and it was their first season in the prem.  Should we have expected them immediately to claim second, in there first season?  Not sure.  But I'm trying to base this argument objectively on finances - so I'll pay you boys that one.

[Hoppy]

Sorry, there’s no way I’m accepting we had a bigger budget than Rangers in 16/17.

Of course we didn’t. Beating Sevco to second two years in a row, despite the shambles they are, when you consider the disparity in budgets is remarkable. They’re spending tens of millions to buy dozens of players and we’re raiding fans piggy banks to fund loan deals. Sakes. People need some perspective.

[mcdougall(4)]

Just trying to make an objective assessment Frankie!  Modern football is governed overwhelmingly by finances.  I think any sane individual cannot argue that point.  However, given this is AFC Chat, I expect a few to attempt to do so...

 

So, we can make an assessment of McInnes performance, based on finances and available budget:

 

2012-13: McInnes has only been in the job for a few months, so not fair to judge.

2013-14: 3rd (2nd budget)

2014-15: 2nd (2nd budget)

2015-16: 2nd (2nd budget)

2016-17: 2nd (3rd budget)

2017-18: 2nd (3rd budget)

2018-19: ? (3rd budget)

 

On the basis of 5 full seasons in charge, you can see that performance based on finances, is close to par.  2 seasons meeting expectation, 1 season slightly below and 2 season slightly above.  2016-17 is a difficult season to quantify as Sevco had just been promoted to Premier League and were an absolute basket case, still in the process of finding their feet.  Should we have expected them immediately to reclaim 2nd, or should they get a years grace?  I don't think anyone can argue that Derek hasn't done a competent job in the League.  In response to your first point @Millertime, he's restored Aberdeen to where they should be, based on finances.  2016-17 is the kicker and probably pushes McInnes 'slightly above expectations'.

 

The Cups are much harder to interpret... where the basket case of Sevco fit in here, I don't know.  However, the question is, in 5 and a half seasons, where does 1 League Cup win (2013-14) sit?  I'm trying to be objective here, but I think we should have expected more, from a team with our available resources.  As the second best team in the country, should we reasonably have expected to beat celtic in one of those three finals, in a one-off game?  Maybe asking a bit much.... or maybe not?  However, during those 5 and a half seasons, Ross County, Inverness CT, Hibernian and St. Johnstone have all lifted silverware.  Should we have taken a greater share of silverware taken out by the 'diddy clubs'? 

 

So at the moment I'm tentatively arguing that we've underachieved in the cup competitions, and that we have achieved slightly above par in the league competitions.  You do have to acknowledge that in March 2013 when McInnes took over, we were a complete basketcase.  From languishing in the bottom six in March 2013, by May 2014 we'd finished 3rd place in the league.  He turned things around in a just over a year.  Just over a year is a long time in football, you see down south, a number of managers only getting 6 months... however, he definitely deserves credit for the initial intervention.

 

Overall, I'd say McInnes has done a good job.  He's proven himself to be a competent manger, capable of delivering expectations.  He is, however, certainly nothing special.  Which brings me back to my original point... which i absolutely stand by:

 

 

This is riddled with inaccuracies 

[Sonoftherock]

This is riddled with inaccuracies 

 

Point them out please McDoogs... this is a forum for discussion.

[mcdougall(4)]

Point them out please McDoogs... this is a forum for discussion.

 

You've edited the budgets, you got that wrong.

We've never finished 4th

[Sonoftherock]

You've edited the budgets, you got that wrong.

We've never finished 4th

 

I'd slipped my mind that the huns has returned in 16/17.  I accepted the mistake and updated. Where have I said we've finished 4th?  You said my post was 'riddled with inaccuracies'.  You've point out one, which I have rectified.

[maryhilldon]

I'd slipped my mind that the huns has returned in 16/17. I accepted the mistake and updated. Where have I said we've finished 4th? You said my post was 'riddled with inaccuracies'. You've point out one, which I have rectified.

You said we finished 4th in May 2014.

[Shinniesta]

The argument from some that say he should have won more than 1 cup in his 5 and a half years is an interesting one. Non old firm teams in Scotland have traditionally never won trophies in bunches in the last 30 years so he would have been bucking the trend if he did. Since Souness arrived in Scotland in 1986 Aberdeen have won the most trophies of non old firm teams (4).

 

For 2 and a half of those years 5 and a half year McInnes has came up against a team far superior to any other in the country in Rodgers' Celtic who have never lost a domestic cup game and have won 5 out of 5 domestic cup competitions. I think it's slightly unfair to criticise him for failing to win a trophy in that time as we've come closer than any other team has (although last seasons capitulations against Motherwell in both cups were embarrassing and not acceptable). McInnes definitely accountable for both of those horrendous performances.

 

So if you take away the Rodgers years he has won 1 cup in the 3 seasons where he came up against a weaker Celtic and a Sevco in the lower leagues (both clubs still had far larger budgets). The season before Rodgers joined Celtic we had two very tough early round cup draws (Hearts and Hibs away) and those are games any team in Scotland can lose. The season before we were very unlucky to lose away to Dundee in the SC and in the SF of the LC to the Arabs (perfectly good goal disallowed at 1-1 in the second half and a goalkeeping howler very late in the game that lost it for us). Difficult to point the finger directly at McInnes for those two games.

 

That leaves his first season where he obviously won the LC and lost the SF of the SC to St J. I think that game is probably the biggest disappointment in the cups in his time here (outwith losing the 3 finals to Rodgers) as we had done the hard work beating Celtic at Parkhead earlier in the competition. Again that was a game of very small margins and we missed some great chances. We were a bit flat in the second half though and May had the best day of his career that day.

 

You could argue that he should have won at least one more trophy than he has. But there are so many variables in cup games that I think it's unfair to use it as a stick to constantly beat McInnes with. He has at least managed to win a trophy and has beaten both Celtic and Sevco in the cups in his time here (as a comparison Sevco have never won a trophy in their 7 year existence despite always having a larger budget than AFC in all that time and have only reached one domestic cup final). Also rival managers like Lennon and Levein don't seem to receive the same criticism for their very poor cup records over the years.

[Sonoftherock]

You said we finished 4th in May 2014.

 

Cheers. That's obviously a typo as I'd just written our correct finish (3rd) in the table above.  I've corrected the typo in the text - didn't make any difference to the argument.

[Sonoftherock]

You could argue that he should have won at least one more trophy than he has. But there are so many variables in cup games that I think it's unfair to use it as a stick to constantly beat McInnes with. He has at least managed to win a trophy and has beaten both Celtic and Sevco in the cups in his time here (as a comparison Sevco have never won a trophy in their 7 year existence despite always having a larger budget than AFC in all that time and have only reached one domestic cup final). Also rival managers like Lennon and Levein don't seem to receive the same criticism for their very poor cup records over the years.

 

Certainly not meaning to use it 'as a stick to beat McInnes'.  Just an honest appraisal, which I've attempted in order to back-up my original post, from the previous page that; while McInnes has done a good job, he most certainly is not the messiah.  He certainly isn't irreplaceable and a competent board* should have no trouble appointing another competent manager.

 

* This is our biggest issue.  However, I hope that when the time comes Dave Cormacks influence will make the difference.  He's one of the few senior board members who's track record isn't stained by failure.  Apart from Cormack, I do have grave concerns regarding our boards ability.  I saw that clown who was caught out for placing a bet on us to lose, and then drank from the Loving Cup at Ibrox, was voted back in at the recent AGM...

[KidCreole]

It's not the fans job to appoint managers.  Our chairman and the board of directors are in charge of appointments.  That is their job. That is their responsibility.  Fans and supporters can have opinions, but only the board can accept applications, or identify and approach suitable candidates.  Then you have the interview process, due diligence, etc... this is standard fare for companies the length and breadth of the capitalist world.  It should be bread and butter.  Appoint someone who can do the job.

 

Why did it take over 20 years for our board to follow up the appointment of Willie Miller, with another competent, fit for purpose individual?  Why were they able to get away with this gross management of the club? 

 

This is a major worry for me and it really shouldn't be!

And thank fuck its not our job, However my point still stands , In any business you can be replaced by someone better I just wonder if anyone has realistically thought about who we could get to replace him for the better 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Sorry above discussion has to take in failure to show progress in Europe. We still seem to have the old school May then August mentality when the euro competitions have moved on and left us behind.. That’s McInnes’ biggest black mark for me. Certainly more than failure to land a cup.

[KidCreole]

Sorry above discussion has to take in failure to show progress in Europe. We still seem to have the old school May then August mentality when the euro competitions have moved on and left us behind.. That’s McInnes’ biggest black mark for me. Certainly more than failure to land a cup.

Plus some baffling selection/tactical decisions. Even a novice like me can spot some glaring errors in judgment, Speaking of which could May and Mcginn not swap positions (mentioned this in another thread) take the goal scoring pressure off a player who is good on the ball but cant score and play a proven striker up front who seems to go missing for long periods unless he is in a goal scoring position 

[C'monEweReds]

Mcinnes has been a breath of fresh air for this club, absolutely no doubt about that. To finish 2nd consistently the last 4 seasons is a magnificent achievement. Just wish the man had bigger balls to actually become something other than a runner up team. 

[Redstar]

Plus some baffling selection/tactical decisions. Even a novice like me can spot some glaring errors in judgment, Speaking of which could May and Mcginn not swap positions (mentioned this in another thread) take the goal scoring pressure off a player who is good on the ball but cant score and play a proven striker up front who seems to go missing for long periods unless he is in a goal scoring position 

Mentioned similar before...the tramp looks a lot better at tackling than he does in front of goal...McGinn playing striker would also pay homage to the only decision the GWT got right during his time as manager...much as that would annoy me.

[Panda]

His "failure" in cups is over egged. Reaching four out of 11 finals is better than average. Been unlucky in that three of them they've had Brendan Rodger's Celtic who no-one has managed to beat in the cups yet - including Rangers, Hibs, Hearts who have all had a crack at them and fallen short.

 

While Aberdeen have made four, in that same period Celtic have made six finals, five of which have been under Rodgers.

 

People prefer to focus on the games we lost as favourites (Motherwell last season for example) and ignore when we've won as underdogs (Rangers this season). The St Johnstone semi defeat at Ibrox is held up as a negative, but winning against the odds in the previous round at Celtic Park is forgotten about.

 

McInnes Cup record is pretty good all things considered.

[aberdeen1970]

His "failure" in cups is over egged. Reaching four out of 11 finals is better than average. Been unlucky in that three of them they've had Brendan Rodger's Celtic who no-one has managed to beat in the cups yet - including Rangers, Hibs, Hearts who have all had a crack at them and fallen short.

 

While Aberdeen have made four, in that same period Celtic have made six finals, five of which have been under Rodgers.

 

People prefer to focus on the games we lost as favourites (Motherwell last season for example) and ignore when we've won as underdogs (Rangers this season). The St Johnstone semi defeat at Ibrox is held up as a negative, but winning against the odds in the previous round at Celtic Park is forgotten about.

 

McInnes Cup record is pretty good all things considered.

 

Aye if his cup record was measured over the 5 year period like the league results are he would be in 2nd place overall, same as the league form.  Hear what people are saying though, a 2nd cup win would have been nice to cement that position

[strachanmcgheegoal]

And his European record, where to be blunt, the money is.......

 

But we need a McInnes type manager (see what I did there) to get us to that table which is why I am very careful what I wish for.

[The Oxford Don]

That St Johnstone game at Ibrox was such a motherfucker. We had so many chances to kill them off at 1-0. 

 

I’m literally still not fully over it. We would almost certainly have battered the Arabs in the final to become double trophy-winners. 

 

G’ahhhh… 

[AllyDon]

It's not the fans job to appoint managers.  Our chairman and the board of directors are in charge of appointments.  That is their job. That is their responsibility.  Fans and supporters can have opinions, but only the board can accept applications, or identify and approach suitable candidates.  Then you have the interview process, due diligence, etc... this is standard fare for companies the length and breadth of the capitalist world.  It should be bread and butter.  Appoint someone who can do the job.

 

Why did it take over 20 years for our board to follow up the appointment of Willie Miller, with another competent, fit for purpose individual?  Why were they able to get away with this gross management of the club? 

 

This is a major worry for me and it really shouldn't be!

 

Good post.

[redone]

It's not the fans job to appoint managers.  Our chairman and the board of directors are in charge of appointments.  That is their job. That is their responsibility.  Fans and supporters can have opinions, but only the board can accept applications, or identify and approach suitable candidates.  Then you have the interview process, due diligence, etc... this is standard fare for companies the length and breadth of the capitalist world.  It should be bread and butter.  Appoint someone who can do the job.

 

Why did it take over 20 years for our board to follow up the appointment of Willie Miller, with another competent, fit for purpose individual?  Why were they able to get away with this gross management of the club? 

 

This is a major worry for me and it really shouldn't be!

 

Why would the board even contemplate getting rid of the only competent , fit for purpose manager they've appointed in 20 years ?

 

Gross incompetence to do so

[Hewitt a the pies]

Because slabbering imbeciles on a forum think they should

Slabbering. Good word @MT