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Scottish Independence Referendum 2


Henry

Should Scotland be an independent country?  

271 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      196
    • No
      75


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Some are more independent than others. Germany and France are the big hitters while countries like Greece, Italy and Portugal are the ones taking the big hits. Why would Scotland be given special status?

You're havering. I've made no assertions on anything here.

Merely pointed out your use of "separation" is pathetic.

 

As previously stated, I've no interest debating with you on this.

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Are you for fucking real? I was going to Pittodrie when you were still in your nappies min. Served my country and did an eighteen month tour in Northern Ireland in 1976/77 so I reckon that rules out the coward and the Hun part of your argument. The moron part is debatable and I have been called a lot worse in my time by fucking experts. All governments are fucking liars and only an idiot would trust any of them and that includes the SNP, although they have done a fine job in Scotland since they came to power, but their quest for Independence at any cost is clouding their political judgement in my opinion. The Tories are cunts, but better the devil you know than the devil you don't. We dodged the bullet the last time and that should make us wary of taking a decision that there is no coming back from.

 

Total nonsense and the type of attitude that holds Scotland back as a country.

 

My parents think similarly sadly... fortunately yours and their generation will soon be gone and Scotland can become a proper, progressive country that takes responsibility for it's own affairs. 

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Total nonsense and the type of attitude that holds Scotland back as a country.

 

My parents think similarly sadly... fortunately yours and their generation will soon be gone and Scotland can become a proper, progressive country that takes responsibility for it's own affairs. 

LOL

 

I can assure you I have no intention of leaving this world anytime soon. It might surprise you to learn that I have no inherent objection to Scotland going its own way, but I do object to us giving up one set of political overlords for another. We should simply go for WTO rules to begin with and then negotiate our own trade agreements with other countries. Who the fuck would not want to buy our Whisky, food produce and carbon neutral technology while at the same time throwing open their markets to Scottish innovation. We can do it if for once in our history if we have the courage to really stand on our own two feet. 

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LOL

 

I can assure you I have no intention of leaving this world anytime soon. It might surprise you to learn that I have no inherent objection to Scotland going its own way, but I do object to us giving up one set of political overlords for another. We should simply go for WTO rules to begin with and then negotiate our own trade agreements with other countries. Who the fuck would not want to buy our Whisky, food produce and carbon neutral technology while at the same time throwing open their markets to Scottish innovation. We can do it if for once in our history if we have the courage to really stand on our own two feet. 

 

 

You can have indy with out rejoining the EU and you can have indy without voting for the SNP, I'd recommend at least one. 

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You can have indy with out rejoining the EU and you can have indy without voting for the SNP, I'd recommend at least one. 

Aye a binary choice does seem to be the in phrase these days, but how we could get independence without the SNP being in the loop evades me at this moment in time. Canna wait until you enlighten me mucker.

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Are you for fucking real? I was going to Pittodrie when you were still in your nappies min. Served my country and did an eighteen month tour in Northern Ireland in 1976/77 so I reckon that rules out the coward and the Hun part of your argument. The moron part is debatable and I have been called a lot worse in my time by fucking experts. All governments are fucking liars and only an idiot would trust any of them and that includes the SNP, although they have done a fine job in Scotland since they came to power, but their quest for Independence at any cost is clouding their political judgement in my opinion. The Tories are cunts, but better the devil you know than the devil you don't. We dodged the bullet the last time and that should make us wary of taking a decision that there is no coming back from.

 

:poster_oops:  In fairness, going to Ireland to shoot the kafflicks is pretty much textbook hun.  Sorry...respect and all that, but very much true.   :happy:

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I'm not convinced we will see a 2nd referendum, at least not in the near future.

 

The SNP have done nothing to address the problems with their original, failed pitched - because they don't know how. 

 

Really, the facts are not really important to the SNP / other indy types: they would sell their soul to Brussels, if it meant they could indulge in the political equivalent of the tartan army drunkenly wallowing in a public fountain.  "Wheeey!  look at me!  I'm Scottish! Ive got a kilt on, look at my arse!" etc.

 

Additionally, they (Sturgeon at least) are shiting it from such a vote, as a 2nd loss would be (even more) devastating.

(Although it did take 3 failed votes before Canadian separatists - quebec, was it? - finally admitted defeat).

 

Sturgeon has made a rod for her own back, calling for a losers vote on brexit, as she could then hardly then be against one, if 'yes' won a 2nd referendum.

 

If there was to be a 2nd vote, it would necessarily be after the brexit dust has settled, so that the circumstances and consequences of the vote were properly understood.  That could be as much as 5 - 10 years away anyway, and would mean the SNP would need to hang onto power which is not guaranteed (they already rely on the Greens, just as the Tories rely on the DUP).

 

I think the case for independence is getting harder by the day.  Just now Holyrood has the autonomy to set its own budget.  If you suggested to Sturgeon that they would need to go to Westminster annually, to have their budget checked and approved before they were allowed to action it, they would spit in your face. 

 

But they would happily accept the need for Brussels to approve* ("dictate") Scottish spending every year.  Anything is worth it, to climb into that fountain and whip their arse out.

 

(*Of course, the EU financial rules only apply to the wee nations, Germany and France can ignore them with impunity.  Macrons recent cave in to the Yellow vests means France is breaching EU financial rules - and this is OK.  But currently the EU will not allow Italy to breach the same rules).

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In fairness, going to Ireland to shoot the kafflicks is pretty much textbook hun. 

 

That's unfair imo, they were meant to be there as police / peacekeepers (not least given how compromised the indigenous police force was) and I reckon the rank and file of the army were in a sense some of the biggest victims of the tragedy of the troubles.  They suffered violence, but didn't have any personal stake in the matter.

 

Troops trained for flowing armoured warfare on the plains of western europe were suddenly thrust into policing a form of urban insurgency, which they were not trained or equipped for.  Any time they did what soldiers do - shoot people - they were criticised.  Their presence ended up a political coup for republicans, who could then present (and treat them) them as an occupying force.  The government put them in chiefly to avoid the indignity of having UN peacekeepers, and then could not withdraw them, because that would be yet another political coup for the republicans.

 

Recently I saw contemporary 70s footage of (english) troops being interviewed in the province.  Many seemed bewildered about the whole thing.  

 

One admitted it was hard not to take sides, given the differences in how they were treated.  "What do you think of Catholics?" the interviewer asked him.  "I am a Catholic" he said.  "But I don't like the northern Irish ones very much".

 

Another guy was very astute and stated using the Army was misguided and a political solution was needed.  He noted that the society was gravely unequal (deliberately so) and that it would need to be more equal before peace would return.  That was true, and it must have made his day all the worse to know that him risking his life daily was ultimately fruitless in terms of ending the violence and division.

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Total nonsense and the type of attitude that holds Scotland back as a country.

 

My parents think similarly sadly... fortunately yours and their generation will soon be gone and Scotland can become a proper, progressive country that takes responsibility for it's own affairs.

I love the use of the word progressive thats been creeping in to politics - particularly anything the SNP do.

 

What do you think we'd do that would make Scotland progressive? Scottish labour are a joke, as are the Tories. Having voted for Indy, I have no idea who I would have voted for to lead us through the separation process...Bearing in mind the snp love centralisation, taxing middle earners, have education policies that have resulted in poorer results, and a further education policy that encourages the unis to target foreign students for their cash...

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Sober up min. Scotland joined the Union in 1707 as everyone who was anyone at that time had been bankrupted by the Darien debacle and England refunded the losses as part of the agreement. I would also remind you that Scotland did pretty well out of the Empire and the profits built many of the finest buildings in our major cities. The Empire was created by force of arms, and I do not recall England forcing Scotland to take part and we were only too happy to join in the free for all. The fact is, which you don't seem to get, that most Scots are happy with the modern relationship despite the Tory cunts and there is no sign of a surge of support for Independence even with Brexit looming.

 

Confirmed.

 

Utterly fucking clueless.

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That's unfair imo, they were meant to be there as police / peacekeepers (not least given how compromised the indigenous police force was) and I reckon the rank and file of the army were in a sense some of the biggest victims of the tragedy of the troubles.  They suffered violence, but didn't have any personal stake in the matter.

 

Troops trained for flowing armoured warfare on the plains of western europe were suddenly thrust into policing a form of urban insurgency, which they were not trained or equipped for.  Any time they did what soldiers do - shoot people - they were criticised.  Their presence ended up a political coup for republicans, who could then present (and treat them) them as an occupying force.  The government put them in chiefly to avoid the indignity of having UN peacekeepers, and then could not withdraw them, because that would be yet another political coup for the republicans.

 

Recently I saw contemporary 70s footage of (english) troops being interviewed in the province.  Many seemed bewildered about the whole thing.  

 

One admitted it was hard not to take sides, given the differences in how they were treated.  "What do you think of Catholics?" the interviewer asked him.  "I am a Catholic" he said.  "But I don't like the northern Irish ones very much".

 

Another guy was very astute and stated using the Army was misguided and a political solution was needed.  He noted that the society was gravely unequal (deliberately so) and that it would need to be more equal before peace would return.  That was true, and it must have made his day all the worse to know that him risking his life daily was ultimately fruitless in terms of ending the violence and division.

 

All certainly true and I know many people who were in the army in Northern Ireland. 

Doesn't alter the fact that going right back to the original plantation in the 1700s, it has been quite literal hunnish behaviour.

 

In the context of the reply and original post though.  Citing service in Northern Ireland as a counterpoint to being a "coward and hun" is not particularly effective. 

 

Certainly a good argument against being called a coward, but not against being called a hun; that was all.

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All certainly true and I know many people who were in the army in Northern Ireland. 

Doesn't alter the fact that going right back to the original plantation in the 1700s, it has been quite literal hunnish behaviour.

 

In the context of the reply and original post though.  Citing service in Northern Ireland as a counterpoint to being a "coward and hun" is not particularly effective. 

 

Certainly a good argument against being called a coward, but not against being called a hun; that was all.

The Protestant plantation was begun by James VI in 1606 when he packed off the border troublemakers to Ulster and not the 1700s as you state. If you can't even get that basic fact right it is hard to take your hun accusation seriously. Childish in the extreme.

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I'm not convinced we will see a 2nd referendum, at least not in the near future.

 

Well, I had no sooner posted this, than Sturgeon is in the papers saying she will release a timetable for a 2nd referendum "very soon".

 

Maybe they think the scaremongering and initial lack of clarity around brexit will help them?

 

Or maybe the timetable will be a bodge job, something like "after brexit, but before the sun burns itself out".

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You brought up the old "imperialist masters" cliché and I simply responded that Scotland played a full part in the Empire building project. If it is your contention that this is not the case then I await your response with baited breath.

 

Too right, a full and prominent part.  Scotland did very well out of the Empire, just as it continues to do well out of the Union.

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You brought up the old "imperialist masters" cliché and I simply responded that Scotland played a full part in the Empire building project. If it is your contention that this is not the case then I await your response with baited breath.

 

Not by choice.

 

Unfortunately.

 

Not sure why you hate Scotland, the country of your birth*, so much?

 

Scotland was forced and blackmailed into this union.

This was not the choice of our people.

To this day, our resources both natural, and financial are stripped for fuck all in return but absolute contempt from the fuckwits in control at Westminster.

Every year we give them every penny raised here and get half at most back.

 

Out identity as a nation is perpetually and deliberately ravaged as a consequence of being ruled by a foreign neighbour.

It's not normal. Yet you glory in it.

 

Is it not about time you got up off your knees?

 

Who the fuck are you to promote keeping our country under the rule of another nation.

I'd say that was the sort of behaviour that would warrant the knocking of one's teeth right down the back of one's throat. To use you own words...

 

If you love English rule so much, why don't you fuck off down there?

Leave us to sort our own country out for ourselves.

 

You pathetic, boot licking, subservient fuck nugget.

 

 

*TBC

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Not by choice.

 

Unfortunately.

 

Not sure why you hate Scotland, the country of your birth*, so much?

 

Scotland was forced and blackmailed into this union.

This was not the choice of our people.

To this day, our resources both natural, and financial are stripped for fuck all in return but absolute contempt from the fuckwits in control at Westminster.

Every year we give them every penny raised here and get half at most back.

 

Out identity as a nation is perpetually and deliberately ravaged as a consequence of being ruled by a foreign neighbour.

It's not normal. Yet you glory in it.

 

Is it not about time you got up off your knees?

I'd say that was the sort of behaviour that would warrant the knocking of one's teeth right down the back of one's throat. To use you own words...

 

 

If you love English rule so much, why don't you fuck off down there?

Leave us to sort our own country out for ourselves.

 

You pathetic, boot licking, subservient fuck nugget.

 

 

*TBC

What a fucking plank.

 

 

I'd say that was the sort of behaviour that would warrant the knocking of one's teeth right down the back of one's throat. To use you own words...

 

Don't recall threatening anyone so if you can just show me where I said that and if you can't it just reveals you for the windbag you are.

 

If you love English rule so much, why don't you fuck off down there?

Leave us to sort our own country out for ourselves.

 

I don't, but who in their right mind would swap one political overlord for 27? As I have already said in this thread I have no inherent objection to Scottish independence provided we truly went our own way and don't jump out of the frying pan straight into the fire. Our food products, whisky industry, technological knowhow and carbon neutral technology are first class and we can make our own way in the world without tying ourselves to anyone's apron strings.

 

Scotland was forced and blackmailed into this union

 

As I said before the Darien adventure had bankrupted the country and the Merchants, shopkeepers, tradesmen etc who had lost everything tacitly supported Hamilton and his cronies as the Union deal saw them get their money back. Try to remember that 18th century Scotland was hardly a democracy, but the fact is the 1707 settlement,  even though it meant the "end of an auld sang",saved us from decades of absolute financial disaster.

 

 

If you love English rule so much, why don't you fuck off down there?

Leave us to sort our own country out for ourselves.

 

You pathetic, boot licking, subservient fuck nugget.

 

Act your age min nae your shoe size and we can continue this debate in a civil manner. If not do one.

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LOL

 

It seems I have managed to get up your nose. Nothing to say on the points I have made or are just going to keep blustering on like an old wifie?

 

You don't have any points worth commenting on, you stupid cunt.

The last three pages of this thread underline this.

 

Just typical brainwashed drivel regurgitated from Britnat propaganda designed to garner support from the lame of thinking such as yourself.

 

Get off your knees you pathetic grovelling arsehole.

 

I have fuck all but contempt for you and your like.

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You don't have any points worth commenting on, you stupid cunt.

The last three pages of this thread underline this.

 

Just typical brainwashed drivel regurgitated from Britnat propaganda designed to garner support from the lame of thinking such as yourself.

 

Get off your knees you pathetic grovelling arsehole.

 

I have fuck all but contempt for you and your like.

Fair enough sunshine.

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