Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Jds192]

 

 

In the last campaign?

 

Give me a break. Project Fear was in full swing and we were told our economy would collapse.

 

Aye in the last campaign.

 

Can remember it being said plenty that Scotland could survive but riskier and better as part of UK. It was the main point.

 

Project fear is just as much from yes side and them trying to get folk terrified of leaving EU.

 

All the same shite.

[Jds192]

So far in her political career, Sturgeon has been demonstrably absolutely schooled by:

 

• Alistair Darling
• George Galloway
• Jim Murphy
• Annabel Goldie
• Danny Alexander
• Boris Johnson
• Andrea Leadsom
• Michael Gove

Will be interesting to see who else is on this list come the next vote.

 

Dont think she was defeated by any of them.

 

She wanted UK to vote out and Scotland to vote for UK to stay in. Was her ideal scenario.

[The Village Seagull]

 

and your a prick everyday, you don't even have the will power to ignore a guy pretending to be a fucking seagull

Oooooo you got him there! Right in the nuts!

 

For the record though, there's no pretending for my hand. I've got no Hanz.

[360]

She wanted UK to vote out and Scotland to vote for UK to stay in. Was her ideal scenario.

 

So she's either a snake who gorges herself on the thought of having power, or an incredibly incompetent politician who gets outwitted by the likes of Johnson.

 

Not great, either way.

[Sonoftherock]

Voted yes the first time round will be voting yes again, regardless how incompetently the SNP put their case.

 

This is a matter of principle.

 

Any fuckwit who voted no last time around based on the promises of a new scotland bill and more devolved powers and who doesn't vote yes, after having several months to digest that watered down peace of shit and after the sewell convention scandal of the supreme court case, should be taken outside and shot.

 

Voting yes is a no brainer given what we saw happen the last time around.

 

We will never get this opportunity ever again. It's now or never!

 

Best post I've read on the topic.

 

Anyone who takes anything posted by Caledonia or Clydesdale_Sheep seriously, is as daft as they are. Nobody, least of all that pair of nuggets, can statistically map out the economic evolution of a newly independent country. There are far too many unpredictable variables to throw into the equation. It's a total waste of time listening to the myriad of spastics trotting out these meaningless 'facts'. Clydesdale and Caledonia were boring us all, for at least a year, with these before the first indy ref... the second one is yet to be announced and already these clowns are back at it.

 

There would be ups and downs, but ultimately an independent Scotland would get on just fine. Independence wouldn't signal the birth of a utopian nation state, nor would it be a complete disaster.

 

Ultimately I think it does come down to your feelings on national identity. Personally speaking, I feel Scottish first and foremost. Scotland should be considered a proper country and IMO every country deserves the opportunity to self govern. It's as simple as that. Sometimes, as a country, I feel we're too down on ourselves, we don't sell ourselves, or project a positive, proactive identity. Independence might actually help change a nations psyche, bring some positivity and force us to start taking responsibility.

 

I hope, if it does go ahead, that Indy Ref 2 hasn't come to early. Looking at the demographics of the last vote, it was the old folks who held us back. The old fashioned notions of the mighty British Empire, the spirit of Normandy, the strength of the Commonwealth, etc.. still linger with many of that generation. Ultimately, the British Empire is dead. WWII is history, where it should remain, and the influence of the Commonwealth is much diminished over the past few decades. I've a few friends over here, from Eire and N.Ire... they reckon that Unionism is going to become completely diluted over in the North and that they're already seeing the first signs. They reckon that apart from your hardcore, who're into marching around 'keeping the tradition alive,' that Great Britain is just becoming less relevant. I think the same thing will eventually happen over here. However, I worry that we might be about 10 years too early... hopefully another debacle of a referendum wouldn't hold us back in the future.

[E-P-K]

Who is to blame for my council tax being raised twice ?

[robbojunior]

Who is to blame for my council tax being raised twice ?

 

Clydeside Sheep and 360

[360]

 

Clydeside Sheep and 360

 

It's not Clydeside's.

 

He's not English.

[The Hulk]

I see the scottish labour leader has been caught lying already, she claimed to already be the subject of abuse due to the start of the 2nd referendum

 

the 2nd referendum hasn't started and it might not happen, nobody could find the abuse she supposedly got but plenty of people were found to be disagreeing with her.

 

She needs to grow a pair.

 

Or another pair.

[Pubes Macdonald]

 

So she's either a snake who gorges herself on the thought of having power, or an incredibly incompetent politician who gets outwitted by the likes of Johnson.

 

Not great, either way.

You do realise you are not voting for Sturgeon in the referendum?

 

If we become independent then you can vote for whoever you want in Scottish General Election.

 

And would there be a need for the SNP in an independent Scotland as they would have met their main objective - independence.

 

Interesting wouldn't you say hmmmm?

[Reed or deed]

You do realise you are not voting for Sturgeon in the referendum?

If we become independent then you can vote for whoever you want in Scottish General Election.

And would there be a need for the SNP in an independent Scotland as they would have met their main objective - independence.

Interesting wouldn't you say hmmmm?

Not in the slightest bit interesting.

 

Boring as fuck really. These cunts are all as bad as each other in politics.

 

Fuck the lot of them.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

You are obsessed with money.

Money is an important consideration.

 

Money builds hospitals, schools and roads.

 

Money pays nurses, policemen and benefits.

 

Misty eyed sentiment doesn't build or pay for anything.

 

I will vote Yes because i want Scotland to be free from the shackles of Westminster and stand on its own feet and make its own decisions. Why is that so hard to understand?

Its isn't hard to understand, no-one said it was.

 

The best way for Scotland to make its own decisions is to do so as a prosperous part of post-Brexit UK, with its own devolved parliament.

 

Although Sturgeon is presently going easy on the EU talk, (because she knows a lot of her own indy supporters are also brexit voters), it is virtually guaranteed that Scotland would ultimately end up in the EU.

 

Then, we would have to get Brussels' permission to implement our own financial budgets, just like (eg) Ireland has to right now.

 

That's right, the EU tells the irish what they can or cannot spend their money on. Does that sound much like ireland "standing on its own feet and making its own decisions"?

 

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/budget-2016-irelands-plans-broadly-compliant-but-four-countries-risk-breaking-eu-rules-34208142.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/budget-2017-brussels-to-cast-a-cold-eye-upon-13bn-of-fiscal-space-425277.html

 

Presently, we in Scotland decide for ourselves what we will spend our money on. Our own Parliament decides. We do not need the permission of any foreign body - unlike EU states.

 

If you want decisions made in Scotland, you shouldn't vote to change that.

 

And before you mention Brussels all other countries in the EU are independent as well.

Except they are not even in control of their own money. Some "independence".

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Best post I've read on the topic.

 

Anyone who takes anything posted by Caledonia or Clydesdale_Sheep seriously, is as daft as they are. Nobody, least of all that pair of nuggets, can statistically map out the economic evolution of a newly independent country. There are far too many unpredictable variables to throw into the equation. It's a total waste of time listening to the myriad of spastics trotting out these meaningless 'facts'. Clydesdale and Caledonia were boring us all, for at least a year, with these before the first indy ref... the second one is yet to be announced and already these clowns are back at it.

 

There would be ups and downs, but ultimately an independent Scotland would get on just fine. Independence wouldn't signal the birth of a utopian nation state, nor would it be a complete disaster.

 

Ultimately I think it does come down to your feelings on national identity. Personally speaking, I feel Scottish first and foremost. Scotland should be considered a proper country and IMO every country deserves the opportunity to self govern. It's as simple as that. Sometimes, as a country, I feel we're too down on ourselves, we don't sell ourselves, or project a positive, proactive identity. Independence might actually help change a nations psyche, bring some positivity and force us to start taking responsibility.

 

I hope, if it does go ahead, that Indy Ref 2 hasn't come to early. Looking at the demographics of the last vote, it was the old folks who held us back. The old fashioned notions of the mighty British Empire, the spirit of Normandy, the strength of the Commonwealth, etc.. still linger with many of that generation. Ultimately, the British Empire is dead. WWII is history, where it should remain, and the influence of the Commonwealth is much diminished over the past few decades. I've a few friends over here, from Eire and N.Ire... they reckon that Unionism is going to become completely diluted over in the North and that they're already seeing the first signs. They reckon that apart from your hardcore, who're into marching around 'keeping the tradition alive,' that Great Britain is just becoming less relevant. I think the same thing will eventually happen over here. However, I worry that we might be about 10 years too early... hopefully another debacle of a referendum wouldn't hold us back in the future.

 

No-one should listen to waffle from someone who is ultimately unaffected by the vote and loves Scotland so much they went to live on the other side of the world.

 

Easy to give it the William Wallace routine, when you have no skin in the game.

 

Among other errors in the post above, Scotland has always been a proper country and Scotland already does self govern.

 

If people could throw off their inadequacy they would see this.

 

Imagine suggesting Scotland isn't a proper country. It isn't being in the UK which holds us back, its that kind of mentality - and that kind of mentality will still be around in an Independent Scotland.

[Nelly]

Money is an important consideration.

 

Money builds hospitals, schools and roads.

 

Money pays nurses, policemen and benefits.

 

Misty eyed sentiment doesn't build or pay for anything.

 

 

Its isn't hard to understand, no-one said it was.

 

The best way for Scotland to make its own decisions is to do so as a prosperous part of post-Brexit UK, with its own devolved parliament.

 

Although Sturgeon is presently going easy on the EU talk, (because she knows a lot of her own indy supporters are also brexit voters), it is virtually guaranteed that Scotland would ultimately end up in the EU.

 

Then, we would have to get Brussels' permission to implement our own financial budgets, just like (eg) Ireland has to right now.

 

That's right, the EU tells the irish what they can or cannot spend their money on. Does that sound much like ireland "standing on its own feet and making its own decisions"?

 

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/budget-2016-irelands-plans-broadly-compliant-but-four-countries-risk-breaking-eu-rules-34208142.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/budget-2017-brussels-to-cast-a-cold-eye-upon-13bn-of-fiscal-space-425277.html

 

Presently, we in Scotland decide for ourselves what we will spend our money on. Our own Parliament decides. We do not need the permission of any foreign body - unlike EU states.

 

If you want decisions made in Scotland, you shouldn't vote to change that.

 

 

Except they are not even in control of their own money. Some "independence".

 

Here's your pocket money Nicola, spend it wisely now. Oh and by the way your share of last month's borrowing is 2 billion pounds, but we'll keep a note of that for you.

[BWG]

Can we ban CS from this thread to spare us 700 pages of utter shite please?

[Bluto10]

No-one should listen to waffle from someone who is ultimately unaffected by the vote and loves Scotland so much they went to live on the other side of the world.Easy to give it the William Wallace routine, when you have no skin in the game.Among other errors in the post above, Scotland has always been a proper country and Scotland already does self govern.If people could throw off their inadequacy they would see this.Imagine suggesting Scotland isn't a proper country. It isn't being in the UK which holds us back, its that kind of mentality - and that kind of mentality will still be around in an Independent Scotland.

Top posting CS min; Always a shining beacon in the dense mists of politics

[Foster14]

Although Sturgeon is presently going easy on the EU talk, (because she knows a lot of her own indy supporters are also brexit voters), it is virtually guaranteed that Scotland would ultimately end up in the EU.

 

Wait a minute, what?!

[vanderark14]

No-one should listen to waffle from someone who is ultimately unaffected by the vote and loves Scotland so much they went to live on the other side of the world.

 

Easy to give it the William Wallace routine, when you have no skin in the game.

 

Among other errors in the post above, Scotland has always been a proper country and Scotland already does self govern.

 

If people could throw off their inadequacy they would see this.

 

Imagine suggesting Scotland isn't a proper country. It isn't being in the UK which holds us back, its that kind of mentality - and that kind of mentality will still be around in an Independent Scotland.

 

someone moving to another country to experience a better life or better their career is allowed to voice an opinion. I chose to move for my career but that doesn't mean I will never move home as I am sure the same goes for SOTR. You can still love your country from anywhere in the world.

 

In saying that I agree that I shouldn't get a vote unless I were to move back but my opinion is just as valid. I stuck up for you and I still agree you are entitled to your opinion despite the flack you get but here you are talking out of your arse. Not you or any other cunt will stop me giving an opinion.

 

I shouldn't be surprised to see the first unionist to mention William Wallace is you.

[robbojunior]

The problem with basing your vote on the economic impact is, not a soul on the planet knows what the economic impact would be. You can guess, speculate, believe the most respected financial 'experts' but they never saw the crash coming and they don't have a fucking clue what brexit will look like.

Added to the fact that life is not static. If an independent scotland was worse off initially, it could eventually flourish. Likewise it could start off affluent and go down the shitter.

Point is, basing your decision on the economic outcome is pissing in the wind.

The decision is purely a question of whether an independent Scotland will have the ability to better serve its people than the UK. I believe the answer is without doubt yes as evidenced by the voting history of Scotland compared to the rUK and how little the will of Scotland ends up represented in government. I think this is the bottom line. If you believe Scotland's interests, or even your personal interests are better served by the UK government then fair play to you, but I'm nae quite sure how you arrive at that belief.

[Pubes Macdonald]

The problem with basing your vote on the economic impact is, not a soul on the planet knows what the economic impact would be. You can guess, speculate, believe the most respected financial 'experts' but they never saw the crash coming and they don't have a fucking clue what brexit will look like.

Added to the fact that life is not static. If an independent scotland was worse off initially, it could eventually flourish. Likewise it could start off affluent and go down the shitter.

Point is, basing your decision on the economic outcome is pissing in the wind.

The decision is purely a question of whether an independent Scotland will have the ability to better serve its people than the UK. I believe the answer is without doubt yes as evidenced by the voting history of Scotland compared to the rUK and how little the will of Scotland ends up represented in government. I think this is the bottom line. If you believe Scotland's interests, or even your personal interests are better served by the UK government then fair play to you, but I'm nae quite sure how you arrive at that belief.

That was a sexy post.

[For Fecks Sake]

 

We will never get this opportunity ever again. It's now or never!

Is that not what was said last time, this was a 'once in a generation opportunity' yet here we all are once again ?

[spamspamspam]

Who is to blame for my council tax being raised twice ?

 

In how many years?

[spamspamspam]

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/poll-53-evening-express-online-social-media-audience-back-yes-campaign/

[E-P-K]

Is Devo Max not an option anymore ?

[stirlingsheep]

Is Devo Max not an option anymore ?

 

The way I understand it - we should currently be living in as 'near to federalism' as possible. Something about a vow. Can't remember off hand.

[caledonia]

This will please a lot of you but im not going to spend 2 years going over and over the same things as indy1

 

Other than to say things have changed ie brexit and scaremongering wont be so easy this time

 

So im out till nearer the time of indy2 but do watch out for the "I dont care" or the "I support the greens" posters who then proceed to post everything with a unionist slant

[360]

This will please a lot of you but im not going to spend 2 years going over and over the same things as indy1

 

Other than to say things have changed ie brexit and scaremongering wont be so easy this time

 

So im out till nearer the time of indy2 but do watch out for the "I dont care" or the "I support the greens" posters who then proceed to post everything with a unionist slant

 

You are now a certified fanny. At least have the courage of your convictions and continue to say what you think.

 

Typical yes voter, all talk but no kilt.

[Pubes Macdonald]

 

You are now a certified fanny. At least have the courage of your convictions and continue to say what you think.

 

Typical yes voter, all talk but no kilt.

Shut up ya pie.

[rumpus]

 

You are now a certified fanny. At least have the courage of your convictions and continue to say what you think.

 

Typical yes voter, all talk but no kilt.

 

I think we all know what Caledonia thinks. There's no point in him repeating himself so an inadequate stalking prick such as yourself can latch onto his posts, slag him off in some vain hope of gaining kudos.

 

Fuck off to some English club forum.

[mcdougall(4)]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/darren-loki-mcgarvey-yes-campaign-must-drop-the-moral-argument-1-4391456