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Scottish Independence Referendum 2


Henry

Should Scotland be an independent country?  

271 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      196
    • No
      75


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The snp are, for many no voters I know, the very reason why they voted no! They don't trust them to run the country.

 

They don't need to. There would be a general election to decide who runs an independent Scotland. I'd wager the SNP's share of the vote would plummet after independence.

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As someone living in England who's witnessed the horror of the English NHS in comparison to how it operates in Scotland, I'd say some people in Scotland don't realise how good they have it under the SNP. They're not perfect, but they genuinely offer an alternative to the Red/Blue option here in Guffyland. The sad thing being as a country the UK will never be rid of the Tories until the Labour party embrace the SNP in Scotland.

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They don't need to. There would be a general election to decide who runs an independent Scotland. I'd wager the SNP's share of the vote would plummet after independence.

I agree. But sadly many don't see it that way.

 

The snp should concentrate on running the country well, showing what they can do, for a few years. That may win some over for the 'yes' side

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I agree. But sadly many don't see it that way.

 

The snp should concentrate on running the country well, showing what they can do, for a few years. That may win some over for the 'yes' side

When everything is running smoothly which has been the case in the majority of the SNPs tenure, the unionists start bleating on about crap that Westminster actually controls or effects or the case of independence itself.

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I agree. But sadly many don't see it that way.

 

The snp should concentrate on running the country well, showing what they can do, for a few years. That may win some over for the 'yes' side

They have been. Our public services out perform those down south. The people of Scotland have continued to benefit from free tertiary education, free concessionary bus travel, free prescriptions, etc, etc. All at a time when Scotland's funding is being cut.

 

People who think the SNP government are doing a shite job and use that as a reason for not voting Yes will never vote Yes (and i saw this as someone who voted Green with my second vote in the last Scottish election). I've given up trying to convince these types of people. They'll never vote Yes, so they're not worth wasting energy on.

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They aren't calling for a 2nd indy ref, Sturgeon is.

 

Personally i think the SNP are out of touch judging by some of todays news : SNP: Tax breaks needed to tempt skilled migrants to Scotland

 

So she plans to keep increasing taxes for Scots but give tax breaks to 'skilled migrants' and continue to give free university education to EU students . I'm seriously losing patience with these bunch of fools.

Whats wrong with that exactly unless you arent a racist?

 

They get a tax break but it costs them to relocate so they arent any better off than your current resident that hasnt moved.

 

They improve the economy and pay taxes to help fund fat useless weegie to sit around and do fuck all.

 

EU students and their parents spend plenty money when they are here, they also boost future trade and investment and the soft power we have as a nation.

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Whats wrong with that exactly unless you arent a racist?

 

They get a tax break but it costs them to relocate so they arent any better off than your current resident that hasnt moved.

 

They improve the economy and pay taxes to help fund fat useless weegie to sit around and do fuck all.

 

EU students and their parents spend plenty money when they are here, they also boost future trade and investment and the soft power we have as a nation.

Tax should be equal across the board for everyone whether you are born here or relocate here from another country. If the company you work for wants to give you extra pay/incentives to relocate to Scotland then great but i'll be fucked if my taxes are increasing so just you can work here.

 

You're a typical snowflake accusing everyone of racism. Where in my post did i mention race? You're the kind of SNP twat that is really turning me off the party.

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They have been. Our public services out perform those down south. The people of Scotland have continued to benefit from free tertiary education, free concessionary bus travel, free prescriptions, etc, etc. All at a time when Scotland's funding is being cut.

 

People who think the SNP government are doing a shite job and use that as a reason for not voting Yes will never vote Yes (and i saw this as someone who voted Green with my second vote in the last Scottish election). I've given up trying to convince these types of people. They'll never vote Yes, so they're not worth wasting energy on.

Lad from my work, he's a hun. Didn't vote for independence as there were no facts to back up any of the figures and was worried where this would leave us.

 

Voted for Brexit. :laughing:

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As someone living in England who's witnessed the horror of the English NHS in comparison to how it operates in Scotland, I'd say some people in Scotland don't realise how good they have it under the SNP. They're not perfect, but they genuinely offer an alternative to the Red/Blue option here in Guffyland. The sad thing being as a country the UK will never be rid of the Tories until the Labour party embrace the SNP in Scotland.

 

Agree

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Tax should be equal across the board for everyone whether you are born here or relocate here from another country. If the company you work for wants to give you extra pay/incentives to relocate to Scotland then great but i'll be fucked if my taxes are increasing so just you can work here.

 

You're a typical snowflake accusing everyone of racism. Where in my post did i mention race? You're the kind of SNP twat that is really turning me off the party.

So if the skilled immigrant comes to Scotland, pays £10k in tax a year for 20 years. £200k, receives a tax break of £10k and therefore pays £190k during his time here.

 

Unskilled weegie in minimum wage job pays £1k tax a year after child and housing benefits etc for 40 years and therefore pays £40k in total.

 

Who exactly is subsidising who? Would it be equal if the second person was entitlied to less services? What if they never got a pension until they paid £100k in tax?

 

You need to earn £35k a year before you are contributing to the balance of government spending rather than being a drain on it over the course of your life time.

 

NB I couldnt care less about racism, I presumed it was your objection to the idea because economically and rationally it is clear its not a terrible idea.

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They have been. Our public services out perform those down south. The people of Scotland have continued to benefit from free tertiary education, free concessionary bus travel, free prescriptions, etc, etc. All at a time when Scotland's funding is being cut.

 

People who think the SNP government are doing a shite job and use that as a reason for not voting Yes will never vote Yes (and i saw this as someone who voted Green with my second vote in the last Scottish election). I've given up trying to convince these types of people. They'll never vote Yes, so they're not worth wasting energy on.

Are the public services running smoothly? An ambulance and police service that can't meet demand. A&E waiting times increasing. NHS cancelling operations regularly. Shortage of beds. Train network not meeting targets.

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Are the public services running smoothly? An ambulance and police service that can't meet demand. A&E waiting times increasing. NHS cancelling operations regularly. Shortage of beds.

 

Our NHS is better performing by pretty much every metric, in comparison to every other part of the UK. Could it be better? Yes.

 

I'm not sure how someone can logically get themselves in to a viewpoint where being better than the rest of the UK is a reason the SNP are doing a crap job AND also want to stay part of the country where the NHS is even worse.

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Are the public services running smoothly? An ambulance and police service that can't meet demand. A&E waiting times increasing. NHS cancelling operations regularly. Shortage of beds. Train network not meeting targets.

 

Try the equivalent services in England mate. Scotland is doing far far better. I've experienced both and particularly the NHS in England is fucking awful compared to Scotland.

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So if the skilled immigrant comes to Scotland, pays £10k in tax a year for 20 years. £200k, receives a tax break of £10k and therefore pays £190k during his time here.

 

Unskilled weegie in minimum wage job pays £1k tax a year after child and housing benefits etc for 40 years and therefore pays £40k in total.

 

Who exactly is subsidising who? Would it be equal if the second person was entitlied to less services? What if they never got a pension until they paid £100k in tax?

 

You need to earn £35k a year before you are contributing to the balance of government spending rather than being a drain on it over the course of your life time.

 

NB I couldnt care less about racism, I presumed it was your objection to the idea because economically and rationally it is clear its not a terrible idea.

So the skilled migrant comes over and gets paid the same as Jock McTavish because of equality laws but he pays less tax than Jock for doing the same job meaning his take home pay is actually more in real terms.

 

Would the SNP consider giving me a tax break to relocate to Glasgow and work? I don't think so. I wouldn't mind doing an Open Uni degree in my spare time. Would the SNP fund that? No chance but they are happy to throw money at EU students and give tax breaks to people relocating here who will use the same services as everyone else (schools/hospitals/doctors etc) but they will be paying less for them. How is that fair? If Sturgeon actually believes this bollocks and goes for it then she is totally deluded.

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Try the equivalent services in England mate. Scotland is doing far far better. I've experienced both and particularly the NHS in England is fucking awful compared to Scotland.

Its like saying it's better to be stabbed than shot. Truth is both services are shite. Just one is less shitey than the other. Hardly anything to be shouting about. Also we pay a higher rate of tax than the English to fund the NHS so you would expect a better service, No?

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Tax should be equal across the board for everyone whether you are born here or relocate here from another country. If the company you work for wants to give you extra pay/incentives to relocate to Scotland then great but i'll be fucked if my taxes are increasing so just you can work here.

 

You're a typical snowflake accusing everyone of racism. Where in my post did i mention race? You're the kind of SNP twat that is really turning me off the party.

 

I can see both sides of it to be honest. Would need to understand the mechanism for the tax breaks, including duration, percentages etc before I could decide fully on it. I'd support the concept if it was in an area where we had a particular shortage of skilled people and the scheme was for a finite period while it was addressed.

 

The first point is perhaps a valid view, but I don't think it is particularly realistic one in the real world. Tax isn't equal across the board. Incentives have been used for encouragement in the past. A prime example just now is R&D. Governments are huge on incentivising research and development for example, giving tax breaks (and in the case of small companies hugely substantial tax breaks) for R&D. It's now such a wide area, that there is a huge amount of tax saving to be done out there. It makes sense though, it is a way for the government to try and keep the UK as relevant in the advancing world, and incentivise it when companies might otherwise prefer to rest on their laurels.

 

Overall though, quite an interesting concept. It appears that there is definitely a requirement to try and encourage population growth in an ageing population. Would be interesting to see this in practice. Would offering a tax break to people emigrating to Scotland for skilled roles adversely affect those already in similar roles to consider emigration elsewhere?

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Our NHS is better performing by pretty much every metric, in comparison to every other part of the UK. Could it be better? Yes.

 

I'm not sure how someone can logically get themselves in to a viewpoint where being better than the rest of the UK is a reason the SNP are doing a crap job AND also want to stay part of the country where the NHS is even worse.

Things can still be better, that's the point. I'm not really bothered about the rest of the uk as I live in Scotland. The fact is these could still be running better.

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Try the equivalent services in England mate. Scotland is doing far far better. I've experienced both and particularly the NHS in England is fucking awful compared to Scotland.

so we're better than the rest of the uk, so we don't have to improve? There is loads that could be improved on in all these areas. This is what Nicola should be aiming to do at the moment. Do that, and I think the snp will start winning people over

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Things can still be better, that's the point. I'm not really bothered about the rest of the uk as I live in Scotland. The fact is these could still be running better.

Ahhh, so we need to have a perfect government, with every public service running perfectly in order to get these people you talk about to vote Yes?

 

No offence to these people you know but they're living in an irrational la-la land and not worth attempting to convince to vote Yes. They'll never do it.

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so we're better than the rest of the uk, so we don't have to improve? There is loads that could be improved on in all these areas. This is what Nicola should be aiming to do at the moment. Do that, and I think the snp will start winning people over

 

We can always get better and I hope we do. It would be a lot easier to get better if we never had the UK govt holding us back.

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They don't need to. There would be a general election to decide who runs an independent Scotland. I'd wager the SNP's share of the vote would plummet after independence.

 

Need to just keep repeating this. A vote for independence is not a vote for an SNP Government

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Ahhh, so we need to have a perfect government, with every public service running perfectly in order to get these people you talk about to vote Yes?

 

No offence to these people you know but they're living in an irrational la-la land and not worth attempting to convince to vote Yes. They'll never do it.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Just because things are better than they are in England doesn't mean they're working well. By your own admission, these areas could be running better in the country.

 

In my opinion, if these things run better, consistently, this will help get people onboard.

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1. So the skilled migrant comes over and gets paid the same as Jock McTavish because of equality laws but he pays less tax than Jock for doing the same job meaning his take home pay is actually more in real terms.

 

Would the SNP consider giving me a tax break to relocate to Glasgow and work? I don't think so. I wouldn't mind doing an Open Uni degree in my spare time. Would the SNP fund that? No chance but they are happy to throw money at EU students and give tax breaks to people relocating here who will use the same services as everyone else (schools/hospitals/doctors etc) but they will be paying less for them. How is that fair? If Sturgeon actually believes this bollocks and goes for it then she is totally deluded.

 

1. Well aye. But then Jock McTavish has already benefitted from free health care, education, the use of state facilities etc as a child when paying no tax.

 

Imagine how rich a country would be if people moved there for 20 years of their working life, paid vastly greater sum of tax than that needed for the services they consume, bear no children and leave when they retire.

 

2. That's another issue and doesn't mean the original policy is wrong. I would happily support a tax break for people like yourself to try and improve their education etc. We are very lucky the Scottish Govt provides free universtity education but that's not to say it's a perfect system.

 

The UK govts apprentice scheme means any company with a wage bill of over £3M a year has to spend 0.5% of this on apprentice schemes. This means there is an increasing number of these available in a vast array of subjects. I'm not sure of your line of work, and what you would like to study but it is possible you could talk to your current employer and benefit from this. It's different in Scotland but look into this https://www.skillsdevelopmentscotland.co.uk/what-we-do/apprenticeships/graduate-apprenticeships/

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Of course we can get better, and I want us to. The mentality of its better than England is small minded and will hold us back.

 

I agree. But the folk who say that the SNP aren't running the country well are like the folk who want to sack McInnes because we aren't winning the league every season.

 

Aye it's nae perfect, could someone do it a lot better guaranteed? Show me them and they have my vote too.

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