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"hillsborough Files To Be Released"


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I'm not really into getting involved in minutae of he said she said stuff beer gut min.

 

The main issue is that Liverpool fans were troublemakers. They were known to go looking for it.

 

The situation that day was created by a host of factors. They also killed folk at Heysel, coincidentally by crushing them to death. Watch those scenes and tell me whether you feel these type of people deserve any kind of recognition?

 

I know innocent people died. I feel they probably should get an apology. From Liverpool FC and the Police combined, which buries it.

 

Instead they want blood. Because they're scummy bastards.

 

that sums it up.

 

i'm no expert but hillbrough was just one of those sad events, where all manner of incidents combined to create one tragic disaster.

 

it wont be 100% the polices fault but equally maybe tehre is more they could have done. and no doubt many many fans acted irresponsibly and contributed greatly to it.

 

out of interest how much do liverpool do to commemorate the hysel disaster? are there charity funds set up for it?

its time for liverpool to drop it. just like juve have.

 

hillsbrough should also not be affecting the prep for chelseas european encounter.

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Liverpool fans are murderers. Not specifically meaning Hillsborough but as far as I'm concerned Liverpool can go fuck themselves.

 

That's as much as I'm saying on this.

 

my favourite post regarding this subject so far comes from the TAMB :-

 

Ive always wondered why Everton fans seem completely normal decent fans, while Liverpools seem to be Celtic fans on speed

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  • 4 months later...
In the small room above the Hillsborough Justice Campaign shop in Anfield, Kenny Derbyshire is used to meeting strangers. "Survivors still turn up out of the blue. They'll stand there, numb, unable to speak and break down in tears. This city is still suffering, until we get the truth no one can move on."This week, 23 years after 96 football fans died at Hillsborough, the city ofLiverpool hopes that, finally, the truth will out.

 

An independent panel of experts, chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool, James Jones, has spent 20 months examining 450,000 internal documents relating to Britain's worst sporting disaster.

 

On Wednesday, the panel will aim to deliver a definitive narrative into the events of 15 April 1989, when a fatal crush developed at the Leppings Lane end of the Sheffield stadium before an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

 

Sources say it will find "in favour" of the families and illustrate, in detail, the lengths to which South Yorkshire police orchestrated a "cover up" to hide their culpability by blaming the fans. The city hopes this will be the week that will finally clear the names of the supporters, who were maligned as drunk, ticketless and unruly, a portrayal perpetrated by police and articulated by the Sun newspaper under the headline: "The truth".

 

Michael Mansfield QC, who will be with families at Liverpool cathedral this Wednesday to offer free legal advice following the release of the documents, hopes myths will be laid to rest. The lawyer, who specialises in miscarriages of justice, said: "It was a false story, it's time to put it to bed."

 

Margaret Aspinall, whose son, James, 18, died, said the smear campaign directed by those culpable for the disaster had deepened Liverpool's grief. "It's not just the survivors, we have to clear their names [the dead]

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Guardian.

 

An independent panel of experts, chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool, James Jones, has spent 20 months examining 450,000 internal documents relating to Britain's worst sporting disaster.

As if the Bishop of Liverpool is going to find, and publicly blame the Liverpool supporters (if they were at fault)

If they want an Independent panel, why have such a high profile member of the Liverpool community chairing it,

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I like to know everyones thoughts on it, I'd very much like to know (given you were around at this time Tommy son) and witnessed this your thoughts.

 

How do you know that both of those factors were what caused it, drunkeness and stewarding? Is this just what you belief or what you have read into it?

 

Would you continue to fight for justice if it had been Aberdeen and you'd perhaps lost a family member IF it was at say Dens Park and perhaps the police fucked up (speculating as I don't really know 'the truth' I can only go on what I read but I like many of those older than me's opinions)...

 

Fans will always go to football drunk, it's 50/50 who's pished and who's sober. Would you fight if you were blamed for something that wasn't your fault?

 

Serious questions rather than getting into a silly 'yeah but it was them - oh but it was them'. It's a subject I really like knowing more information on, so be delighted to get your thoughts on the matter.

 

 

i would imagien there isnt a simple explaination but more than likely a numbner of roughly equally contributing factors. like drunk fans, poor stewarding, shit stadium etc.

 

just one of those things.

 

afaik there isnt one obvious cause

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Thing that intrigued me from the program last night that I wasn't previously aware of was that Hillsborough had hosted the same fixture a year previously.

 

What was so different between the two games in terms of crowd numbers? Extra significance for some reason?

 

Means that some of the Liverpool fans (but clearly not all) as well as the police and ground staff would have known to an extent about this centre pen, but no guidance was put in place prior to the game. No signage etc. to show you couldn't access the whole terrace from that gate.

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I like to know everyones thoughts on it, I'd very much like to know (given you were around at this time Tommy son) and witnessed this your thoughts.

 

How do you know that both of those factors were what caused it, drunkeness and stewarding? Is this just what you belief or what you have read into it?

 

Would you continue to fight for justice if it had been Aberdeen and you'd perhaps lost a family member IF it was at say Dens Park and perhaps the police fucked up (speculating as I don't really know 'the truth' I can only go on what I read but I like many of those older than me's opinions)...

 

Fans will always go to football drunk, it's 50/50 who's pished and who's sober. Would you fight if you were blamed for something that wasn't your fault?

 

Serious questions rather than getting into a silly 'yeah but it was them - oh but it was them'. It's a subject I really like knowing more information on, so be delighted to get your thoughts on the matter.

 

 

Robo, there were many victims who were totally innocent and not drunk and i sympathise

with all the families of the deceased.

I read enough at the time,listened to eyewitness accounts and watched documentaries over the years

to gain enough knowledge that what i said was more or less the cause.

I could take the easy option that many made that it was the police who were at fault but as bad as they were

it wasn't all down to them.

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When you see the pictures of the number of fans both inside and outside of the ground as it happened, there was clearly a problem with fans either getting in without tickets or with tickets for the wrong end. Was still highly stupid of the police to open up that extra gate, not to mention all the cover up stuff afterwards.

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The root cause of the disaster lies firmly at the feet of the Liverpool fans.

 

If they hadn't been trying to get in without tickets and causing congestion at the gates then the gates wouldn't have been opened. The first set of gates were opened to ease that congestion. Then the Liverpool fans rushed in causing a larger crush.

 

Perhaps the police should not have opened those gates but they did so with only good intentions in mind.

 

Clearly there were other errors such as Liverpool being given that end instead of the other end which had a bigger capacity, the middle alleyway being locked as that's what it was like during a normal game with fans of either side in the same end but there is no getting away from it. The fans caused that disaster.

 

Maybe doesn't sit nice with the general thought that it was the coppers to blame but in this occasion it wasn't.

 

Fans attempting to get in without tickets and causing an initial crush was the key event in this.

 

On a side note they did the same fucking thing at the Champions League Final when they made it 3-3 but fortunately not the same accident happened. So much for learning their lesson.

 

A shame for all those who died but at the end of the day it was their own people who caused it.

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I perhaps asked that in a way where it looked as if I disagreed with what you were saying, I apologise - as this wasn't the case. Older generation who've had to listen to 'Hillsborough' talk since 1989 and are old enough to base their opinions is what I'm really interested in, so your opinion to me - actually matters.

 

I don't really have an opinion either way, I just read documents and watch documentaries for further information.

 

Football fans go to matches drunk, I know I was hammered when I went to Hampden, okay it's not quite of the same set up as Hillsborough but was I any danger to others around me for being drunk?

 

 

I have no problem anyone disagreeing with what i'm saying.

I can't be right all the time. ;)

I thought you were just asking an old mannie for his take.

I've done drunk at fitba too, one epic was at a cup final when you could take

drink into Hampden. I was standing on terracing with tin in hand when i was

pushed from behind and basically fell forward and landed on my face. Never spilt a drop.

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The important question is this:

 

What possessed brownie to use a capital F on Files and a capital R on Released, but a small h on hillsborough?

 

I smell conspiracy.

 

 

Thread titles automatically get capital letters for the second word and onwards.

 

He's made an error in not capitalising Hillsborough. The first word in a thread title doesn't get changed automatically. It's assumed that no one would be so silly as to start a sentence without a capital letter. The other words would have been small case but are automatically changed to capitals for the thread title.

 

Mystery solved.

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The root cause of the disaster lies firmly at the feet of the Liverpool fans.

 

If they hadn't been trying to get in without tickets and causing congestion at the gates then the gates wouldn't have been opened. The first set of gates were opened to ease that congestion. Then the Liverpool fans rushed in causing a larger crush.

 

Perhaps the police should not have opened those gates but they did so with only good intentions in mind.

 

Clearly there were other errors such as Liverpool being given that end instead of the other end which had a bigger capacity, the middle alleyway being locked as that's what it was like during a normal game with fans of either side in the same end but there is no getting away from it. The fans caused that disaster.

 

Maybe doesn't sit nice with the general thought that it was the coppers to blame but in this occasion it wasn't.

 

Fans attempting to get in without tickets and causing an initial crush was the key event in this.

 

On a side note they did the same fucking thing at the Champions League Final when they made it 3-3 but fortunately not the same accident happened. So much for learning their lesson.

 

A shame for all those who died but at the end of the day it was their own people who caused it.

 

Trouble in Athens was avoided by the stewards denying entry to people with legitimate tickets. Led to plenty of scrapping outside but nothing in the ground.

 

Platini was then threatened with legal action from Liverpool fans who didn't get in.

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1st bit in bold....were they though? Is this fact?

 

2nd bit in bold...it was Athens rather than Istanbul, and that was absolutely disgusting - I agree.

 

What happened was they were waving 'bits of blue' paper in the hope they'd get into the ground, but they didn't get past second sections of security in Athens. My mate witnessed this, and I was disgusted.

 

1. Yes. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a crush. Tickets were issued for the capacity of the ground. Had there only been a capacity crowd there would have been no crush. Standing areas had a bit of give and take but not to the numbers seen that day so yes people without tickets tried to get in.

 

2. Apologies. I knew it happened at CL final. Didn't realise it was the other one.

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How do you come to the conclusion fans tried to get in with no tickets?

 

Is this fabrications churned out, or is it completely and utterly true?

 

Once again, trying to get the feeling on all of this from people who were old enough to remember.

 

 

Well i certainly remember Liverpool fans saying they climbed a wall to get in coz

they had no tickets.

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How do you come to the conclusion fans tried to get in with no tickets?

 

Is this fabrications churned out, or is it completely and utterly true?

 

Once again, trying to get the feeling on all of this from people who were old enough to remember.

 

The Taylor report dismissed it and said rather than too many fans being in the ground there were just too many in the central pen. But even just looking at pictures and footage from the game all the other parts of the stand such as the upper deck look pretty packed as well.

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How do you come to the conclusion fans tried to get in with no tickets?

 

Is this fabrications churned out, or is it completely and utterly true?

 

Once again, trying to get the feeling on all of this from people who were old enough to remember.

 

Well it's an easy observation to make.

 

Without going to exact figures if that end had a capacity of 10,000 then they would have issued 10,000 tickets. Everyone would have got in and there would have been no crush. Using 10,000 just as a round number and have no idea the exact capacity.

 

Because there was a crush it's safe to say that more than 10,000 people were in that end.

 

Therefore only two options are available.

 

1. People from other stands tried to get into that end instead and everyone of them had a ticket. That's unlikely given all the other ends were also full.

 

2. People without tickets got into the end.

 

There were many people at that game in that end who did not have tickets. That much is clear. Crystal clear.

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The Taylor report dismissed it and said rather than too many fans being in the ground there were just too many in the central pen. But even just looking at pictures and footage from the game all the other parts of the stand such as the upper deck look pretty packed as well.

 

 

Correct. It's blindly obvious that end was over capacity. Therefore there must have been people without tickets in it. It's a no brainer.

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And that's disgusting if proven to be true.

 

But how many would have gone with no tickets you reckon? Enough to cause an absolute overspill in one of the pens?

 

 

How many went to Athens without a ticket. Or Istanbul?

 

How easier is it to get to Sheffield compared with Athens or Istanbul?

 

Different eras but there would have been a shit load without tickets.

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