daytripping Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The police were on a hiding to nothing, if they'd not opened the gates and people died they'd have been slaughtered. All this justice for the 96 crap is tiresome, it was an accident caused by ticketless Liverpool fans, no one else is to blame, in hindsight the police shouldn't have opened to gate but I'm sure everyone concerned is aware there was no malice behind that decision, lessons have been learnt to ensure it doesn't happen again, I think that's the comfort those on this witchhunt should note. Link to comment
Tommy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 And that's disgusting if proven to be true. But how many would have gone with no tickets you reckon? Enough to cause an absolute overspill in one of the pens? I honestly have no idea how many, but man u fans often let a ticketholder enter a turnstyleand one without one went through with him. I dare say scousers did that too.The arrangements for getting into the various sections at that end of the groundwas a shambles. Link to comment
RUL Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I think some of the unreleased, previously, pics are fairly damning of the police and so is the evidence. Folk seem to mistake the campaign about being what caused it but it's more about the police reaction after things went wrong and who got the blame. Lines of police standing about doing nothing, statements and testimonies changed to blame fans. With respect to most on here the campaign has been about releasing the unreleased evidence so it defies logic to base your opinion without seeing the full evidence that this report uncovered Link to comment
Tommy Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I watched the ITV version last night. It's quite scary stuff that actually, it could have happened to any set of supporters. The thing for me in this whole cover up they are calling it is when Duckinfield told the police to open up the 'exit gate' to allow supporters in, but then said Liverpool fans kicked the door in, he never once said open that gate - despite 3 police officers confirming he did say this, and despite no evidence to support the gate had been kicked in at all. The one last night was more informative than the BBC one. Aswell as the families asking to see their loved ones and the police saying 'they belong to the coroner now'. No shame. There really wasn't much new in last night's programme. Totally agree, the comment about belonging to the coroner was outrageous. Link to comment
stand_free Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Was the ITV one good? The BBC one was pretty poor. Nothing investigative just a stating of the already well known points. Link to comment
RUL Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Its fairly shocking indicment of the police that documentary, out of their depth. Link to comment
steems Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Irrespective what Liverpool fans may or may not have done (and I for one believe many stories, like those in The Sun, to be made up) the relatives of the 96 people (many of them just kids) deserve to know the truth. It would appear the lies were started almost immediately with the police commander who ordered the gates to be opened issuing a statement that the gates were forced open by fans. The generalisations about the Scouser 5 1 Link to comment
Redstar Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Probably best to just let it lie...the scouse are undoubtedly only after some sort of compo...these things happen. 2 Link to comment
stand_free Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Probably best to just let it lie...the scouse are undoubtedly only after some sort of compo...these things happen. Good Enough For The Police Link to comment
Redstar Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I recommend you watch some interviews with the families then. They were offered money. This is what they think that their family meant to them, 'close the book - accidental death, have a bit of money'. The families told them where to go.Looking for more than was offered... Link to comment
Redstar Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Anne Williams had been offered a hell of a lot of money. She is the one who's case stands out more than any other. She was offered life changing money, she refused - because what she actually wants is justice for her son. Convenient that her case is the strongest, so she was offered the most money...wonder why. 'Please keep quiet'.It was a long time ago...honestly these folk should get over it...what happened wasn't pleasant but it helps none of them dredging it up...a ruling has been passed/accepted...I'm not being a cu*t just rationalising on what was a horrific event and better moved on from...life's not always fair Link to comment
Redstar Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I notice the people who say that always avoid the question I've asked numerous times, the post before Steems I think...Yer right Roberto...if it was my son or daughter I would be pushing it till I had nothing else to give...as before I don't think there will ever be an admission of guilt from the authorities on this one...I'm just thankful I am not going thru what they are...bad shit happens... you just got to hope it's not you or your own it happens too Link to comment
Old Wing Stand Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Even if the police did or didn't make mistakes finding them guilty wont bring their loved ones back Link to comment
At The Border Guy Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Caught in two minds about all this... Firstly, I'm fully behind the families of the folk who died in finding out exactly what happened and getting it officially recognised. I hope they get a satisfying outcome. However, there seems to be a whole cult around this now, with many Liverpool fans using the 'victim complex' to define themselves. The same fuckers aren't going to be happy if there is ANY criticism of Liverpool fans in the final report and will keep propogating this shit until the end of time if there is. It's the same crap that keeps Old Firm shitebag bigots going - Nothing to do with football, just a bunch of bollocks that has nothing to do with them directly that keeps them entertained and angry between matches. I truly hope the families and friends are happy with the result, but it's inevitable that the large bunch of wankers that make up the shitty arsehole portion of their support are going to keep this bullshit going for years to come. 2 Link to comment
steems Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Even if the police did or didn't make mistakes finding them guilty wont bring their loved ones back You just don't get it do you - they are looking for the truth.And there is no question the police made mistakes - that's not even up for debate. 2 2 Link to comment
RUL Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Some folk's view is "scousers are scum and its been ages,, get over it"...wasting your time even debating the subject. 1 1 Link to comment
The Boofon Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Always the victim, never your fault. 1 Link to comment
The Boofon Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Not sure how this conclusion is drawn given they accepted full responsibility and tried to make amends for Heysel, Juve weren't interested and Liverpool fans didn't blame them, but they did try. They fully accepted what they did. Really? In what way? Link to comment
The Boofon Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 They wrote to Juventus, fans etc. They made up a mosaic when they came to Anfield many years back, it spelt out 'friendship'. Some fans applauded and all has been forgiven by many, but by others - they weren't interested. That wall could have fallen at either side, it fell on Juventus fans - whom also played their part in that trouble. Had it fallen on Liverpool fans, would Juve fans have been blamed though, that's the question? It was 50/50 which way that wall was going to fall. Liverpool fans knew they were in the wrong, as well as Juventus 'ultras' know they played their own part in what was stupid fighting. There is a plaque at Anfield also remembering the victims of Heysel. There you go. Link to comment
The Boofon Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It was a question for you, would they have? I don't know the answer...but given how many people on here can't discuss anything in this thread without 'yeah blame them, they are scum' - I guarantee I can 'guess' what many would answer to that question would be... Look at Steems and RUL both of whom are not Liverpool fans, they appear to understand the script when it comes down to the matter at hand here (Hillsborough) and that's what we were discussing. No one seems to want to debate it, they just say the same shit over and over again. Redstar when poked, I believe saw where I was coming from. I think EVERY set of fans would react in the same way to Hillsboro if it was them / their family. Apologies. Looked like it was a point of view. For what it's worth yes they would have been blamed. Especially by the British press. With regards to the thread topic it's easy to say the police fucked up and mistakes were made. Of course I'd be fighting for justice for any of my family if they were involved but at the end of the day the disaster was caused by Liverpool fans. After care issues are of course a bit iffy but it was a disaster that no one expected, they weren't prepared for it and so delays and mistakes were made by police, stewards, fans and rescue services alike. All had a part to play in what happened after the event happened but the disaster was caused by Liverpool fans. Of that there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. Link to comment
steems Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 All had a part to play in what happened after the event happened but the disaster was caused by Liverpool fans. Of that there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. That's your view and I am not sure what it's based on on but it' s accepted that a lack of crowd control measures on the day was a major factor of the crush in the central pens behind the goal. Link to comment
fatshaft Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Not sure how this conclusion is drawn given they accepted full responsibility and tried to make amends for Heysel, Juve weren't interested and Liverpool fans didn't blame them, but they did try. They fully accepted what they did. They wrote to Juventus, fans etc. They made up a mosaic when they came to Anfield many years back, it spelt out 'friendship'. Some fans applauded and all has been forgiven by many, but by others - they weren't interested. That wall could have fallen at either side, it fell on Juventus fans - whom also played their part in that trouble. Had it fallen on Liverpool fans, would Juve fans have been blamed though, that's the question? It was 50/50 which way that wall was going to fall. Liverpool fans knew they were in the wrong, as well as Juventus 'ultras' know they played their own part in what was stupid fighting. There is a plaque at Anfield also remembering the victims of Heysel.Ah I see, 'full responsibility' scousey stylee Link to comment
fatshaft Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It was a question for you, would they have? I don't know the answer...but given how many people on here can't discuss anything in this thread without 'yeah blame them, they are scum' - I guarantee I can 'guess' what many would answer to that question would be... Look at Steems and RUL both of whom are not Liverpool fans, they appear to understand the script when it comes down to the matter at hand here (Hillsborough) and that's what we were discussing. No one seems to want to debate it, they just say the same shit over and over again. Redstar when poked, I believe saw where I was coming from. I think EVERY set of fans would react in the same way to Hillsboro if it was them / their family.Hmmm, Bradford, Juve, Rangers, Bolton? Nope, don't recall any of those trying to blame the police fully and totally for their respective tragedies. there's been others, but likewise, because there hasn't been a 20+ year campaign against the police (whom it must be said I have no time for whatsoever) then they've slipped from memory. There isn't a single football tragedy anywhere that compares with Hillsborough with regards to how the fans/communities reacted to it. Nor indeed a football conviction anywhere that compares with Michael Shields. The commonality there being............ Link to comment
Old Wing Stand Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Was watching a bit of this on the new tonight showed a clip of the crowd at Anfield with kids as young as 10 singing justice for the 96, things like this should be left to the families not bunch of Scousers who tend to wallow in grief. 1 Link to comment
Old Wing Stand Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A 2 minute silence then a vigil to mark the release of the papers They don't half go overboard how many of them actually know any of the victims ? Just more Scousers self pity http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19543964 Link to comment
muttondressedaslamb Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A 2 minute silence then a vigil to mark the release of the papers They don't half go overboard how many of them actually know any of the victims ? Just more Scousers self pity http://www.bbc.co.uk...eyside-19543964 Couldn't agree more. Link to comment
Jonty Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A 2 minute silence then a vigil to mark the release of the papers They don't half go overboard how many of them actually know any of the victims ? Just more Scousers self pity http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-19543964 Fuck me they dont half like to wallow in self pity and victimhood, two minute silence my @rse. Link to comment
dj_bollocks Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You do wonder if they'll ever be at peace. Link to comment
zander Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So Police were to blame reading on other forums Scousers lining up to have a go at The Sun and Boris Johnson for things they've said how very sad. Finally the justice they have fought so much for all the can do is look for apologies how very sad. Link to comment
RUL Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 164 police statements edited. Link to comment
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