Fallujah Taken Over By IS

[Clydeside_Sheep]

F*ck me, eh?

"Fallujah falls under Al-Qaeda control in blow for Iraq security

Key Iraqi city has fallen into the hands of Al-Qaeda group ISIL after days of fierce fighting"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10550563/Fallujah-falls-under-Al-Qaeda-control-in-blow-for-Iraq-security.html

The fact that such a shocking event seems (to us) somewhat "out of the blue" is very revealing about the quality/accuracy of our mainstream medias Iraq Coverage.

Wasn't the story supposed to be that the West had done a great job there and have now gone home, so the Iraqis can live happily ever after?

 

Interesting that a major city in a democracy being taken over by a band of violent, ideological savages is described as a mere "blow" and not a "complete f*cking disaster".

The Iraqi Government are now trying to get their sh*t together, to regain control of the city. When the USA previously cleared out the City of militants, it cost them about 100 dead and several hundred serious casualties. And this was with the full might of the USA military, not the "armed tribesmen" the Iraqis will rely on to some degree. (and probably Al Queda will probably be able to 'turn' some of these tribesmen, wooing them via the perceived benefits an Islamic state brings for Muslim men - access to virgins etc).

It seems like the legacy of our modern, progressive, western Goverments Iraqi adventure is far from being wholly defined. Its maybe too early to say, but it sadly looks like this "blow" to Iraqi security will now derail the introduction of Iraqi gay marriage. Damn those Islamic militants.

Of course, these people who have taken over Fallujah are the stable mates of the savages who are fighting the Ba'athist regime in Syria, just "next door".

In Syria, the US gives aid to Islamic Militants while, just across the border in Iraq, it gives aid to the Iraqi Government to fight the self-same f*cking Islamic militants.

Is not America a lawless warmonger, a plague upon this earth?

 

If all this turned out badly, the Syrian Regime and Iraqi Government could fall, giving rise to serious militant Sunni Islam, in two former secular Arab Countries. (Well, the Syrians arent all ethnic Arabs, but humour me).

[Ke1t]

First of all I'm not even slightly convinced that the insurgents in Fallujah have anything to do with Al Qaeda, despite what our governments and media are telling us.

 

Anyone who followed the illegal invasion will remember that Fallujah was the city that actually forced the United States army to retreat, following an uprising by multiple groups within the city.

 

Then followed the 'Weapons Free' revenge attack by the Americans where anyone at all in the city was considered a target, be they armed insurgents or defenceless women and children. The city was said to be 'pacified' following the near destruction of huge swathes of the city and the massacre of insurgents and unarmed civilians alike. This massacre was called 'The Second Battle of Fallujah'.

 

Now, given this operation, which will still be in the minds of every Iraqi who went through what was a war crime, no-one's telling me that this isn't a popular uprising.

 

But the US government isn't going to say, "Oh, yeah... remember, this is where we went in and just murdered a whole fuckload of women and little kids as revenge for our humiliating withdrawal."

 

What they'll say is, "It were Al Qaeda what took over the city."

 

I know which sounds more likely to me.

 

[1983]

First of all I'm not even slightly convinced that the insurgents in Fallujah have anything to do with Al Qaeda, despite what our governments and media are telling us.

 

Anyone who followed the illegal invasion will remember that Fallujah was the city that actually forced the United States army to retreat, following an uprising by multiple groups within the city.

 

Then followed the 'Weapons Free' revenge attack by the Americans where anyone at all in the city was considered a target, be they armed insurgents or defenceless women and children. The city was said to be 'pacified' following the near destruction of huge swathes of the city and the massacre of insurgents and unarmed civilians alike. This massacre was called 'The Second Battle of Fallujah'.

 

Now, given this operation, which will still be in the minds of every Iraqi who went through what was a war crime, no-one's telling me that this isn't a popular uprising.

 

But the US government isn't going to say, "Oh, yeah... remember, this is where we went in and just murdered a whole fuckload of women and little kids as revenge for our humiliating withdrawal."

 

What they'll say is, "It were Al Qaeda what took over the city."

 

I know which sounds more likely to me.

 

Whilst I whole heartily agree with your cynicism about the media coverage and the morally weak motives from the US Kelt I would question your assumption that the US didn't try to avoid civilian deaths, hence the relatively high losses they took themselves. If they were being as indiscriminate as implied they simply would have carpet bombed the whole area with no requirement for boots on the ground, and thus no chance of US casualties.

[granite sheep]

Aye but carpet bombing kinda destroys the area in a non news worthy way, unlike sending in the grunts.

[Ke1t]

Whilst I whole heartily agree with your cynicism about the media coverage and the morally weak motives from the US Kelt I would question your assumption that the US didn't try to avoid civilian deaths, hence the relatively high losses they took themselves. If they were being as indiscriminate as implied they simply would have carpet bombed the whole area with no requirement for boots on the ground, and thus no chance of US casualties.

 

While I firmly believe the US government was in the hands of a group of sociopathic murderers I don't think they were stupid sociopathic murderers.

 

Plausible deniability was always the m.o. of the Neocons, be it superficial 'reasons' for invading Iraq.. such as anthrax, chemical stockpiles, allusions to nuclear programs... there was always plausible deniability. You send a couple dozen B52s over Fallujah and simply level it from the air then there's no way they could have said, "Hey, we tried to keep civilian casualties to a minimum." Even the most solid neocon/Bush supporter would have been forced to admit that there was no attempt to target insurgents but rather the whole operation was a callous and deliberate targetting of everyone and everything in the city.

 

The US government to this day denies there was anything but an attack on insurgent groups, even though soldiers involved in the 'battle' have openly admitted their orders were 'weapons free'.

 

I'd also point out that, politically, there's no way the ground forces.. after being forced to retreat, were going to leave the retaking of Fallujah to anyone but themselves, The second 'battle' was as much about revenge and saving face as it was about any kind of anti-insurgency operation.

 

"We were told, going into Fallujah, that every single person who was walking, talking, breathing, was an enemy combatant."

 

[NorthernLights24]

Things just keep getting better...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27789229

[Ke1t]

Things just keep getting better...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27789229

 

So that's Mosul taken by rebels, and today there's news that Tikrit has been taken by rebels too.

 

Two major cities in two days.

 

Fallujah, the city where the US military massacred civilians, and Ramadi are already under rebel control. So that's at least four major cities and who knows how many smaller towns.

 

You have to think that the 'security situation' in Iraq is a little less secure than we're led to believe.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

Sending 100,000 soldiers back to take control of shit is out of the question, the Iraqi military looks incapable of preventing rebel gains, and the rebel advances now see them 95 miles from Baghdad.

 

This ISIL mob seem fairly motivated.

 

[tup]

This was always going to happen after we left.

 

Things are just returning to normal basically.

[zander]

Leave them to it.

[granite sheep]

Well, look at that, we (the west)train, fund and arm these folks when we need them to "look after our interests", and then we throw our hands up in horror as they take those self same arms, training, and funding; and use it to take over their country. Same damn thing happened in Afghanistan when the Mujahadeen needed "aid" to kick out the Communist hordes of the Soviet Union. All this has happened before and will happen again. We never fucking learn that lesson.

 

Leave bloody well alone, maybe they'll get too bloody ambitious and have a go at Iran. Maybe it's Iran supporting these ISIS lot, seeking a re-unified Persian state. I don't know. However what I do know if the latter was to be true, would be that any armed intervention by NATO would spark a conflict that would be a bloody meatgrinder for our forces. Fuck that.

[fine-n-dandy]

It's just boredom caused during the close season. The devil makes work for idol hands.

 

Be fine once the fitba starts again.

[Poodler]

Must be a nightmare living somewhere like that. Finally getting your house done up again after Murica blew it up then *knock knock* and some man in balaclava and a gun turns up and tells you he's going to be liberating the area for you, free of charge. Since he's such a good cunt.

[ChutneyLove]

On a positive note, brown love is free and easy since they're keeping their front bums nice and untainted for their wedding night.

 

Only thing is, you know her four brothers have been there before you.

[Poodler]

On a positive note, brown love is free and easy since they're keeping their front bums nice and untainted for their wedding night.

 

Only thing is, you know her four brothers have been there before you.

My pal is just back from Sudan and he was telling me on Monday night that the whores in the brothel he was in would only take it up the arse! I'd have a greenbeer to that

[reekie_dock]

My pal is just back from Sudan and he was telling me on Monday night that the whores in the brothel he was in would only take it up the arse! I'd have a greenbeer to that

 

 

Fuck sake like, ats a pain in the erse.............

[Dynamo]

This ISIS mob seem like a nice bunch. Crucify people on roundabouts and such like...

[The Boofon]

This ISIS mob seem like a nice bunch. Crucify people on roundabouts and such like...

That would make the delays at the Haudagain a bit more entertaining.

[Dynamo]

That would make the delays at the Haudagain a bit more entertaining.

 

The 'Hang a hun for Christmas' campaign should run all year.

[boboisared]

 

The 'Hang a hun for Christmas' campaign should run all year.

'Hang a hun for the third week in June'.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

This current situation in iraq is the fault of the west. Yer man saddam had a firm lid on this kind of thing. I am shocked with how powder puff the iraqi army has turned out - its clear we just f*cked off and left them in a fragile state with their pants down, a disgrace.

 

I suppose one possibility is that Sunni troops are just letting the insurgents (also Sunnis) through, if they want rid of the Shia controlled Government. But then, I am sure iraqis of any strip would prefer a secular nation (even a dictatorship, like the former baath regime) than to live under the likes of ISIS.

 

I have to laugh at the news - barely a peep of any bother in Iraq in recent months - and then all of a sudden fundamentalists are in control of a large swathye of land in the region, from the turkish border to the outskirts of baghdad.

 

Apparently the Iraqi government is already turning to shia militias and Iranian troops. The whole region could go up in flames.

 

And I bet the same thing will happen In Afghanistan when that government is finally left to its own devices, the Taliban will just waltze right back into power.

 

I bet there are many westerners, including Britons, in this ISIS mob too, who will eventually return here. Perhaps I should dig out my grandfathers Lee Enfield.

 

Of course, much funding for sunni extemists comes from Saudi and Qatari sources - but we pretend we dont know that, because the west buys oil from them and they buy arnaments from the west in return.

 

I suppose it all goes to show how confused and ineffective the wests policies in the region have been. All that has been created is a massive mess and you can bet whoever comes out on top will be no friends of ours. Great.

[Oregon Red]

CS there is a certain argument used by people here that sees this chaos as the intended result of the Invasion of Iraq.

If they are all fighting each other they tend to let Israel be and of course our arms manufacturers are very happy indeed.

[Poodler]

Am I right in saying that the George Bush family partly own a massive munitions company? If that's true, quite a co incidence there. That they make money from war.

[tup]

Am I right in saying that the George Bush family partly own a massive munitions company? If that's true, quite a co incidence there. That they make money from war.

You should read The Halliburton Agenda to see the extent to which this is true.

[Poodler]

You should read The Halliburton Agenda to see the extent to which this is true.

A quick internet search brings up the Carlyle group, of which George was a one time adviser, and multi billion dollar weapons contracts after 9/11. Wonder when the CIA will turn up at my door for inciting terrorism

[Bluto10]

You should read The Halliburton Agenda to see the extent to which this is true.

Yeah, if you care.

But why would you give a shit.

[Ke1t]

That's the Rebs on their way to Baghdad.

 

Not to worry, the 'Iraqi Government' says they have a plan.

 

So that's all right then.

[E-P-K]

That's the Rebs on their way to Baghdad.

 

Not to worry, the 'Iraqi Government' says they have a plan.

 

So that's all right then.

 

 

Iraq's senior-most Shia cleric has issued a call to arms against the rebels,

 

Shit just got real.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

This current situation in iraq is the fault of the west. Yer man saddam had a firm lid on this kind of thing. I am shocked with how powder puff the iraqi army has turned out - its clear we just f*cked off and left them in a fragile state with their pants down, a disgrace.

 

Having read a bit more, I retract the comment in bold.

 

Wiki says the Iraqi army is close to 300,000 men in size. Their armour and arty is (typically for the region) cold-war era soviet stuff - basic export models, not the better stuff the reds kept for themselves. But still very capable of causing mass death and destruction.

 

However, their small arms and light vehicles are modern US / Eastern European issue.

 

They also have a sizeable Paramilitary Police force, including battalions of "Police-Commandos". I expect the Police is even bigger than the army.

 

This ISIS mob is estimated to number just 3,000 - 5,000 militants. (Previously they only had the usual small arms - AK-derivates, RPG-7s, mortars - but are now packing the aforementioned Iraqi army gear, including choppers).

 

The Iraqis should have been able to beast this lot quite easily, without recourse to using sectarian civilian militias and Iranian troops.

 

For ISIS to make such large gains very quickly and easily is surely indicative that a large amount of Iraqi Sunnis support them, or at least want rid of the Shia Government. With Hussein gone - and the American-led west gone - there must be a feeling that things are "up for grabs".

 

I suspect that this is becoming more of a civil war, along Sunni-Shia lines, than a unified country battling insurgents. The Governments use of Shia Militias and Iranians may well inflame previously ambivalent Sunnis in Iraq.

 

We should never have toppled Hussein. Sure, he was a bit of a c*nt, but he had learned his lesson after his ill-fated invasion of Kuwait. He had no weapons of mass destruction.

 

The Baath party were mainly Sunnis, but their religion was a personal matter - they even had Arab Christians in high ranking Government and Army positions. They identified as Arab Nationalists, not Sunni extremists. This is why his Government was stable, as any Iraqi could be an Arab nationalist regardless of faith. He understood how to make the place work, which the Americans most certainly did not.

 

I was surprised that most Iraqis are shia muslims - given the bitter Iran-Iraq war, I previously thought it was the other way about.

 

This is a terrible business for the ordinary Iraqis, they have been beset by all manner of violence for decades now, and for what? Other peoples politics (including that of the secular west).

[Ke1t]

You just can't transplant enforced Capitalism on a people who expect, and most likely want, Dictatorship.

 

America is reticent to get involved, Obama said on the Whitehouse lawn today that he wouldn't be sending troops.

 

I'll tell you who will be happy to send troops though.

 

[E-P-K]

You just can't transplant enforced Capitalism on a people who expect, and most likely want, Dictatorship.

 

America is reticent to get involved, Obama said on the Whitehouse lawn today that he wouldn't be sending troops.

 

I'll tell you who will be happy to send troops though.

 

 

 

 

Exactly,

 

 

Iraq, Libya, Egypt et al, none are better off post dictatorship