Boxing Fans

[Don Fonte]

22 hours ago, Jocky Balboa said:

Here's a topic worthy of some hot debate - is Mike Tyson really an all-time great, or a media hype?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boxingnews24.com/2018/05/was-mike-tyson-overrated/%3famp

This is one of many articles that says the latter and it's hard to disagree with what he says here. 

My general take on it is that, while he peaked very early (no-one can say what would have happened if Cus D'amato hadn't passed so early in his career) there are several key points against him being one of the greats:

1. He did very well to clean up his division in the first 4 or so years. However, he never beat an all-time great in their prime; 

- Larry Holmes had been retired for two years and at 38, was way past his best.

- Berbick beat a caricature of Muhammad Ali and was never anything more than a decent fighter who overachieved.

- Wasn't Spinks a natural Light-Heavyweight who moved up and was overmatched?

- Bruno (both times) was as much a case of Bruno beating himself - his fear had him defeated before he stepped in the ring

2. He never got off the canvas to win a fight, like many greats. Every time someone successfully stood up to his bullyboy tactics, he had no Plan B and lost.

3. He never avenged any of his defeats, unlike many greats.

- Buster Douglas had just lost his mother and fought the fight of his life, against a Tyson who was complacent, that is true, but the latter had never truly been tested and when finally put to the sword, he folded

- People remember the Holyfield double header for the ear-biting incident, but forget that Holyfield dominated the first fight and was on his way to winning the second - tell me Tyson didn't do this as a way out via disqualification?

- He asked Lennox Lewis for a rematch at the end of the first, but looking at the way the first fight went (Lewis outclassed him in almost all rounds) he would have embarrassed himself in the process

So all in all, I would have to say that he deserves credit for his early peak years, albeit in a weak era, but overall I'd say he's not even an all-time great heavyweight, far less a great boxer overall. I think Ali, Foreman and Sonny Liston, among others, would have hammered him.

Somewhere between the 2. The most exciting heavyweight ever in his early years.

If he'd live the right life would he have ended up an all time great? I think so.

As it is - in the top 20 for achievements.

Maybe top 5 for hype, excitement, draw etc.

[Don Fonte]

Just now, Dad said:

Prime Tyson would beat everyone else's prime

Leave this chat to the big boys eh.

Prick.

[maryhilldon]

Most overrated heavyweight?  Fraudley Harrison?  He was proper shit. 

[Don Fonte]

12 minutes ago, Dad said:

Prime Dad would kick fuck out of prime Don

You've not had a prime.

[Don Fonte]

9 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

Most overrated heavyweight?  Fraudley Harrison?  He was proper shit. 

His PPV v Haye was the most horrendous rip off ever.

[Don Fonte]

2 minutes ago, Dad said:

Ach here - that's bollocks ^ 

 

No broke a record in fucking ages. 

Ah no. 

Who's your favourite boxer old man?

[Jocky Balboa]

2 hours ago, Don Fonte said:

Somewhere between the 2. The most exciting heavyweight ever in his early years.

If he'd live the right life would he have ended up an all time great? I think so.

As it is - in the top 20 for achievements.

Maybe top 5 for hype, excitement, draw etc.

Agree for the most part, the truth is somewhere in between. Usually heavyweights leak later than the rest, so given his best years were between 19-24 it's always going to be a case of "what if" but he only has himself to blame.

2 hours ago, rocket_scientist said:

Agree. But it was a short prime, a small window when he wasn't up against anything great so it's impossible to know how good he was when he first became champion.

Loved his animality. Didn't like him. Saw a thing recently when they were recording a podcast or interview and he was stoned, smoking on the job. Fine young criminal who had a serious talent for a short time. 

Agree. I just don't buy the widely-held hypothesis that in his peak he would have bested everyone, either before or since. Those who point to his power fail to mention Sonny Liston, those who point to his wrecking ball style neglect that Foreman was an unbelievable puncher in his day and demolished Frazier, among others.

Speaking of Foreman, there was an almost universal feeling that Ali hadn't a prayer against him (apparently Ali's own corner thought he was in for a hiding) which was understandable, given Foreman had destroyed guys who went toe to toe with Ali. Yet Ali outwitted him.

So with Liston, Foreman and Ali, there's 3 heavyweights who could have beaten Tyson convincingly. I also think Holyfield and Lewis would still have been too resilient / big and strong respectively.

As for the modern scene, not sure about the Klitschko's and Fury, but they certainly wouldn't lie down to him.

[Don Fonte]

6 minutes ago, Roberto said:

Time is Herring Frampton on Saturday?

I like Frampton so hoping he does the business.

Might get a few cans with a few doobs and watch it.

About 10, half 10. On channel 5.

[Don Fonte]

6 minutes ago, Roberto said:

Channel 5? Random, but works out fine.

Aberdeen 12.15pm

Lazio Spezia at 2pm.

Leicester Man City 5.30pm

Arsenal Liverpool at 8pm

Boxing at 10pm.

Shaping up for a good Saturday. Few bottles of SB for you Don?

Aye, apparently a falling out between Frank Warren and Frampton so no BTSports and it's on 5.  Not sure what time it's on locally in Dubai.

Nah, got the wee one for a week or so for the holidays from the weekend so be chilled oot. Maybe a couple glasses though.

[maryhilldon]

Joe Frazier is my favourite heavyweight, loved his relentless attacking style.  An absolute warrior but maybe not the smartest. 

[NEM]

18 hours ago, Don Fonte said:

Somewhere between the 2. The most exciting heavyweight ever in his early years.

If he'd live the right life would he have ended up an all time great? I think so.

As it is - in the top 20 for achievements.

Maybe top 5 for hype, excitement, draw etc.

Pretty much how I see it

[NEM]

16 hours ago, Roberto said:

Time is Herring Frampton on Saturday?

I like Frampton so hoping he does the business.

Might get a few cans with a few doobs and watch it.

I hope he gets fucking leathered 

[Guest milne_afc]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:43 PM, NEM said:

I hope he gets fucking leathered 

 

?

[aberdeen1970]

He never had a chance. 

Frampton was great at super bantam but even at featherweight he was too small to hurt the bigger guys at that weight let alone trying to take on giant super feathers when he's at the tail end of his career. 

[NEM]

11 hours ago, milne_afc said:

 

?

Yes a very pleasing watch - the hun rodent got slapped from pillar to post ?

[Zeus]

Think I'll watch the undercard of the Conor Benn fight the morn ?

 

[Zeus]

Just now, Roberto said:

The size of blonde bombers melons are fucking tremendous. 

Just spied them on Matchrooms Facebook page 

Nae idea of she's any good however will be watching ?

[Don Fonte]

[NEM]

Conor Benn superb there 

[minijc]

4 minutes ago, NEM said:

Conor Benn superb there 

He's improved massively like.

[NEM]

24 minutes ago, minijc said:

He's improved massively like.

Yip thought that’d be a tough test for him but he blew Vargas away 

[Don Fonte]

Would love to see him chin Khan.

[NEM]

1 hour ago, Don Fonte said:

Would love to see him chin Khan.

Not a chance Khan will take that fight 

[Don Fonte]

18 minutes ago, NEM said:

Not a chance Khan will take that fight 

Indeed. Brook might for some decent cash.

[aberdeen1970]

Any and every old shite is PPV these days. 

 

[NEM]

5 hours ago, Roberto said:

Chisora raging he lost.

Unfortunately I didn't see it as I was shattered and conked out.

I did wake at 4 for Ruiz fight. Certainly think it was closer than judges said. Ruiz doesn't possess the same power after the weight loss. 

Could have went either way but I thought Chisora edged it.  One of the cards was silly.

Not a huge fan of wifey's boxing but Taylor v Jones was a fair scrap

[minijc]

Canelo rattled, making a show of himself in the hotel.

[minijc]

18 minutes ago, Roberto said:

Perhaps slight element of this but remember Canelo sorted out getting his brother back the day before a fight from a drug cartel, so it'll take a lot more to get completely in his head.

There will be a lot more to come I am sure, but the tactics may well be working slightly or it's just going to anger the guy.

Regardless I'm buzzing for Saturday.

On the flip side I've never once seen him animated like he was yesterday and shouting, calling them pussies, it's little but it's way different from how he carries himself.

 

I'm looking forward to it, for years I've said Billy Joe beats him and I still believe he has the ability to do it.

[The Cockney Don]

Hope that prick Saunders gets fackin sparko'd.

[The Cockney Don]

34 minutes ago, Roberto said:

I find it amusing that him and Tyson Fury are riling many people in the boxing world.

They get underneath people's skin and back it up. I hope BJS does the business on the Mexican but can't see it happening.

You be watching with your bowl of nachos and desperados beer?

Tyson's alright.

Saunders has been a prick for a long time, type of geezer i don't get on with at all in real life.

 

He'll get the Canelo body shot, craaaaack.

Round 10.