Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[fatjim]

You can't take anything seriously that CS says. He believes in fairy tales and magic for fuck sake.

[robbojunior]

The UK is nothing comparable to Ireland in this regard.

 

I used to see a girl from Cork. I remember raising my eyebrows to learn she and her friend* had bought a 2 bed semi for megabucks

 

(*they cant afford to buy on their own, and this is about 10 yrs ago).

 

I cant remember the exact price, but I am sure it was about 300,000 euros.

 

They significantly paid more for it, than we paid for a 4 bed, newly built detached house, >10 years later - in a better city.

 

The irish housing market is bonkers.

 

And for renters, currently:

 

Average rent in Dublin: E 1,620 (and rising)

Average rent in Glasgow: £ 752

 

And like Cork, Dublin couldnt hold a candle to Glasgow.

 

You are an oddball.

 

You not only appear to hate Scotland, you really have a fucking axe to grind with Ireland too.

 

I know lots of people who live in Ireland, and none of them seem particularly unhappy with their lot, or with Ireland as a country.  None of them give a fuck about the G7 either.

 

This line of reasoning that ooooh if we were independent we'd be a NOBODY like Ireland, is just more inane bullshit.

 

[SheepieBaaBaa]

If Scotland got independence I think we would be like the fool on the hill from the Beatles song.

 

Everyone banging on about how silly we are whilst we sit peacefully and serenely enjoying our personal form of happiness.

[The Boofon]

If Scotland got independence I think we would be like the fool on the hill from the Beatles song.

 

Everyone banging on about how silly we are whilst we sit peacefully and serenely enjoying our personal form of happiness.

 

 

I hope we get it as I could go and work in London and claim overseas allowances.

[manboobs109]

I hope we get it as I could go and work in London and claim overseas allowances.

You wouldn't have travelled over a sea though. Clues in the name.

[The Boofon]

I would.

[manboobs109]

Claim them now then

[The Boofon]

I work elsewhere at the moment daftie.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

70% of the abuse was boys and girls under the age of 14

 

It wasn't sex abuse, it was child abuse. Your church covered up for child rapists and you come on here and are an apologist for that. And you try and claim moral superiority.

 

You're a fucking scumbag

 

Most of the abuse was against post-pubescent sexually mature males, as the stats show.

 

I am not an apologist for anything, you are a denier of facts and an equivocator.  

 

Most of the abuse was committed by homosexual predators.  That is who is attracted to sexually mature males.  

 

You can dance around terms all you like, but you cant change the facts.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Hopefully I am now forgiven for my response to the imagined (admittedly misinterpreted) slight.

 

Nothing to forgive 

 

When I read your post to auld manny, I did think "I wonder if he thinks he is talking to me"

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Of course, an Independent Scotland would no longer be allowed to use the English language. I'm convinced.

 

No-one asserted that, although I am sure the SNP was struggle to answer what language we would use, if asked.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

So you have no like-for-like, real terms, comparison to the UK?

 

I know your wee sphere of ken doesn't expand much beyond your hometown but Glasgow is actually one of the most affordable cities in the UK to live. So comparing it to the most expensive city in Ireland is a bit misguided.

 

So, compare it to London and adjust the rents for the differences in average earnings, then you'll have a worthwhile comparison.

 

I was comparing it to the biggest City in Scotland because we are talking about Scotland Independence and how Ireland is often held up as an example of what Scotland could be like. (as Caledonia did earlier in the discussion).

 

How london compares to anything could scarcely be less relevant in the context of Scottish Independence and Scottish house prices.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

You are an oddball.

Im sure you have said that before

 

You not only appear to hate Scotland, you really have a fucking axe to grind with Ireland too.

I dont hate anything, pro-indy people seem to hate facts though.

 

I know lots of people who live in Ireland, and none of them seem particularly unhappy with their lot, or with Ireland as a country.  None of them give a fuck about the G7 either.

Yes, I am sure you have discussed the G7 with them at great length.

 

I haven't suggested the Irish are all miserable, just pointed out how for example their young people have less opportunities than ours.

 

That's why so many of them leave the country to make a life elsewhere.

 

This line of reasoning that ooooh if we were independent we'd be a NOBODY like Ireland, is just more inane bullshit.

I don't agree that its "inane bullshit" to compare the differences in influence between nations. It directly affects the kind of world we live in.

 

I'm genuinely amazed you are so dismissive of the UK's position in the world.

[Parklife]

I was comparing it to the biggest City in Scotland because we are talking about Scotland Independence and how Ireland is often held up as an example of what Scotland could be like. (as Caledonia did earlier in the discussion).

 

How london compares to anything could scarcely be less relevant in the context of Scottish Independence and Scottish house prices.

A simple "i don't have a fucking clue about the comparable cost of living" would've been quicker to type.

[craegDAMH]

Most of the abuse was against post-pubescent sexually mature males, as the stats show.

 

This is simply a lie. Completely without basis. On average post-pubescence occurs at age 16-17 for males (15-16 for females). 

 

~70% of abuse victims were younger than 14.

 

 

I am not an apologist for anything, you are a denier of facts and an equivocator.  

 

You are denying the facts. And there is nothing unequivocal about me calling child abuse for what it is, and calling you a fucking lying scumbag.

 

 

You can dance around terms all you like, but you cant change the facts.

 

The fucking irony

[Clydeside_Sheep]

A simple "i don't have a fucking clue about the comparable cost of living" would've been quicker to type.

It would have, but then that would have added as little substance as your own posts.

[Parklife]

It would have, but then that would have added as little substance as your own posts.

Tell us again about how some lassie you used to go out with bought an expensive house 10/15/20 years ago. That sure adds loads to the debate...

 

Jesus fuck, what an insufferable bore you are.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

This is simply a lie. Completely without basis. On average post-pubescence occurs at age 16-17 for males (15-16 for females). 

 

~70% of abuse victims were younger than 14.

 

You are denying the facts. And there is nothing unequivocal about me calling child abuse for what it is, and calling you a fucking lying scumbag.

 

The fucking irony

craegDAMH,

 

The average age for girls to start puberty is 11, while for boys the average age is 12.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/early-or-delayed-puberty/

 

When I say "post pubescent" I am therefore refering people older than 11/12.

 

But lets not get into a debate about human biology.   If you doubt my facts, I refer you to (eg) the John Jay Report of 2004 and the Grand Jury Report of 2018.

 

According to the John Jay report, 81% of victims were male and 19% female.  the largest victim group (50.9 percent) of victims were between the ages of 11-14; 27 percent were between 15-17 years old; 16 percent were between 8-10 years old; and 6 percent of all victims were under 7. According to the John Jay Report, the vast majority of cases involved post-pubescent males; 

 

74 percent of the predator priests mentioned in the Grand Jury Report abused male victims, and 23 percent abused female victims. (presumably the balance had victims of both genders).  Of the instances of same-sex predation, 11 percent involved true pedophilia (involving a pre-pubescent child); 60 percent involved a teenage boy; and 2 percent involved an adult. In total, 189 priests abused male victims and 58 priests abused female victims.

 

The notable bias towards male victims, who are above the age of puberty, appears again and again.  And I am sure we have discussed this again and again.  I am pretty sick of discussing it tbh and only engage with the topic whenever someone attempts to deny the facts.

 

Could you explain why you regard it as controversial, even enraging, to hear the facts about this scandal?

 

Why do you regard an assertion of the facts as an attempt to dismiss the seriousness of the crimes?

 

You have to accept the facts.  Denying the facts is a form of cover up in itself.

 

Accepting the fact that most abusers were homosexual men doesn't say anything about gay men more widely, any more than the fact that the abusers were all Catholic priests says anything about Catholics more widely.

 

I shouldn't have to state such an obvious thing, but I suspect an imagined extrapolation of facts is what is angering you.

 

However, it is wrong to hide the homosexual nature of most abuse, just as its wrong to hide the fact that the rotherham abusers were muslims ("asian men" as the BBC calls them).  Cover ups are wrong.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Tell us again about how some lassie you used to go out with bought an expensive house 10/15/20 years ago. That sure adds loads to the debate...

 

Jesus fuck, what an insufferable bore you are.

 

Not so insufferable that you don't keep coming back for more.

 

PS - it was about 10 yrs ago

[craegDAMH]

Post-pubescence means after puberty. Puberty is a process which takes on average 4 years. Only after this process is a person sexually mature.

 

It's hardly a mystery why most of the victims are boys, they make up the vast majority of male choirs. It's also not a massive mystery why most of the abusers are male... woman aren't allowed to be priests.

 

Also, why have choirs traditionally been made up of young boys throughout history? Is it for their post-pubescent deep voices or was is for something else? 

 

Whenever puberty starts, whether it's a girl or a boy a 14 year old is a child. It's child abuse. And you're an apologist for the organisation which allowed it to happen for centuries and protected the rapists.

 

EDIT: to add, you're a fucking scumbag

[Quagmire]

CS will you be considering your daughter to be post-pubescent and sexually mature at 12 years old? 

[craegDAMH]

However, it is wrong to hide the homosexual nature of most abuse, just as its wrong to hide the fact that the rotherham abusers were muslims ("asian men" as the BBC calls them).  Cover ups are wrong.

 

100% of the abusers in this instance were Catholic priests / brothers / sisters / whatever and they were protected by the church for centuries. The Rotherham abusers are in prison, what proportion of the thousands of child abusers in the church have gone to prison?

 

Please do tell us more about cover ups though...

[Redforever86]

How can any sane person say "I believe in independence at any cost"

 

That's mental

I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

[Redforever86]

Aye I did notice and I also noticed what happened to Greece, or had you forgotten?

 

 

You really think Greece is comparable to Scotland? If so please do explain....

[Redforever86]

Nae bother, Mel

 

I guess you are used to being an inferior member of the work place, a subservient oink to the superior middle management. Happy to accept your place in society at the upper end of the working poor. Alas it's easy not having to make the big decisions, apply critical thinking and just idling by doing what you are told. Bless. 

[Bluto10]

politics

 

LOL

[Old manny]

I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

And this years Oscar for the best child actor goes to.....

 

You really think Greece is comparable to Scotland? If so please do explain....

Greece is in the EU and as a result of their failure to follow European fiscal policy the people are reduced to scranning the bins in order to eat. President Macron of France on the other hand has just run a coach and horses through EU economic policy and no action is taken against the Frogs whatsoever. The lesson being that if Scotland joins the EU any idea we have of running an independent economic policy will be crushed like a cockroach under a jackboot. I totally agree with the majority of members on here that Scotland is more than capable of fighting our corner in the world, but for fuck sake it just does not make sense to leave one unfair political union only to throw ourselves on the mercy of another. If we don't have the balls to take control of our own destiny in the big bad world we deserve all we get. 

[mcdougall(4)]

You really think Greece is comparable to Scotland? If so please do explain....

 

Edinburgh - Athens of the North.

[Redforever86]

Edinburgh - Athens of the North.

Makes more sense than the pish old manny is spouting. Greeks were work shy lazy cunts who never paid taxes and retired at about 55 on generous pensions. The EU was dumb as fuck lending them heaps of cash but they made no effort to invest it properly. They got what they deserved. Feel sorry for some of the general populace but most were tax dodging cunts.

 

Plenty small countries get on just fine with the EU....

[SheepieBaaBaa]

Post-pubescence means after puberty. Puberty is a process which takes on average 4 years. Only after this process is a person sexually mature.

 

It's hardly a mystery why most of the victims are boys, they make up the vast majority of male choirs. It's also not a massive mystery why most of the abusers are male... woman aren't allowed to be priests.

 

Also, why have choirs traditionally been made up of young boys throughout history? Is it for their post-pubescent deep voices or was is for something else? 

 

Whenever puberty starts, whether it's a girl or a boy a 14 year old is a child. It's child abuse. And you're an apologist for the organisation which allowed it to happen for centuries and protected the rapists.

 

EDIT: to add, you're a fucking scumbag

 

 

Not agreeing with Clydeside, but my bullshit detector is going off.

 

The whole process takes 2 to 5 years yes, but post-pubescent refers to the period after the onset of puberty (10 to 16 depending on when puberty starts).  The period after that is a young adult and then adult.

Pretty much every reference ever made in literature, or indeed medicine has an upper limit of 15 or so.  Only a spazzy would call a 17-year-old a post-pubescent teenager.

 

The Kafflicks like their child molesting (which is different from and in many ways worse than paedophilia) but to suggest that post-pubescent refers to people over the age of 16 is nonsense.

 

edit....this does not mean I am suggesting that fucking kids between the age of 10 and 16 is acceptable..