Aberdeen sack Derek McInnes

[Panda]

I actually like Lennon, think he's one of the more interesting and articulate managers in Scotland.

 

But I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Aberdeen job.

 

He turns up at every Celtic testimonial and function they have. Can you imagine the meltdowns if McInnes was constantly turning up to Rangers events? It's massively disrespectful to the club you're at.

 

That, and for all his pretty football at Hibs, he's won fuck all with them.

[maryhilldon]

I actually like Lennon, think he's one of the more interesting and articulate managers in Scotland.

 

But I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Aberdeen job.

 

He turns up at every Celtic testimonial and function they have. Can you imagine the meltdowns if McInnes was constantly turning up to Rangers events? It's massively disrespectful to the club you're at.

 

That, and for all his pretty football at Hibs, he's won fuck all with them.

I actually quite liked him as well up until today, wears his heart on his sleeve and calls a spade a spade. But his amateur dramatics the other night and his shift into full on 'victim' mode today have reminded me why i couldnt stand him when he was celtic manager.

[Shinniesta]

I actually like Lennon, think he's one of the more interesting and articulate managers in Scotland.

 

But I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Aberdeen job.

 

He turns up at every Celtic testimonial and function they have. Can you imagine the meltdowns if McInnes was constantly turning up to Rangers events? It's massively disrespectful to the club you're at.

 

That, and for all his pretty football at Hibs, he's won fuck all with them.

I like him as a manager too. I admire his fearlessness and how genuinely pissed off he gets when his team lose at places like Parkhead and Ibrox.

 

But you're right the Aberdeen job would never be a good fit for him. The Celtic links are just too strong he'd never be properly accepted.

 

However I certainly wouldn't hold it against him that he's won fuck all with Hibs. Non old firm teams winning trophies is relatively rare and he hasn't been at Hibs long enough to hold that against him yet in my opinion.

 

Lennon's brand of football and the sheer belief he seems to transmit into his players no matter who they are playing is what most Dons fans would want to see at Pittodrie trophies or no trophies. But the man himself just wouldn't fit in here.

[Shinniesta]

Yeah but he only has that mode

 

It works SOMETIMES against the old firm (though is their recent record better than ours, would doubt it) but that maniacal approach doesn't work as well against the riff raff which is why we perenially finish above them

Yeah I accept that. I mean his team were loudly applauded for giving Celtic a game at Parkhead the other week when they lost 4-2 but Celtic could have scored 10 that day due to how open Hibs were at times. We actually gave Celtic a tougher game at Parkhead.

 

His recent record against the old firm is definitely better though. I think last season they took 5 points off Celtic and 7 points off the huns including winning at Ibrox twice. They haven't played Sevco yet this season and have lost to Celtic ar Parkhead. But you're right they will have to show a greater consistency against the lesser teams to finish second this season. But to be fair to them they weren't that far away at all last season and but for a missed penalty at Pittodrie and a calamitous (and out of character) collapse against Sevco from 3-0 up they might just have achieved it.

[TheRock]

True, but you could point to games we could have, should have won too and say we might have had second wrapped up long before the last game of the season.

[Shinniesta]

True, but you could point to games we could have, should have won too and say we might have had second wrapped up long before the last game of the season.

Fair point. But if Hibs has finished second last season I don't think many would have said they didn't deserve it or were not truly the second best team due to how competitive they were against the best teams in the league.

 

We did finish second last season but despite that there was a general feeling from outwith the club that we weren't actually the second best team in the country. Which is probably unfair as every league game is worth a potential 3 points so technically a game against Hamilton is as important as one against Celtic. But the general feeling was that we were not the second best team due to how meek we had been against the old firm for most of the season (we lost our first 6 games against them with an overall goals aggregate of 1-15 in those games).

[Shinniesta]

That's silly

 

If you finish second you have amassed more points against all the teams than those below

 

You dont get more points for beating one team over the other

 

Many trophies has Lennon won at hibs?

 

Even then, were we not unbeaten against the top teams after the split?

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm a believer that you finish where you deserve to finish after 38 games.

 

What I'm saying is that the perception from fans of other clubs is that we were not the second best team in Scotland last season. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's what I've heard from fans of other clubs and from some in the media too. Most don't truly believe we were a better team than the huns last season despite what the final league table said. That is to do with how inferior and timid we looked against the old firm when we played them.

 

Personally I think we deserved our second place finish as we were not favourites for that slot at the time of the split but we went unbeaten in those five games taking 11 points including being the only Scottish team (still the case now) to beat Rodgers' Celtic not just at Parkhead but in Glasgow.

[Shinniesta]

Yeah but that is the perception of idiots!

 

I get frustrated after old firm losses and have even myself thought I want Lennon as he wouldn't take shite from them

 

Bottom line though is mcinnes is a better all round manager

I wouldn't say for definite that McInnes is a better all round manager. Both McInnes and Lennon found the going tough down in England. But Lennon did well at Celtic his results in Europe are better than Rodgers has managed to date at Parkhead. McInnes doesn't have a win against Barca on his CV.

 

I do think the vast majority of Dons fans would prefer we played the way Hibs do under Lennon. However that doesn't mean McInnes is inferior to Lennon as a manager he's just more cautious by nature which causes more frustration amongst fans when results don't go well.

[TheRock]

Fair point. But if Hibs has finished second last season I don't think many would have said they didn't deserve it or were not truly the second best team due to how competitive they were against the best teams in the league.

Maybe. Not sure if there's many people saying something different about them finishing fourth though.

[Yorston Vasey]

McInnes without beard - one final, one win.

 

McInnes with beard - two finals, no wins.

 

We got enough DNA money left for a set of bic razors and some shaving foam?

[Panda]

I wouldn't say for definite that McInnes is a better all round manager. Both McInnes and Lennon found the going tough down in England. But Lennon did well at Celtic his results in Europe are better than Rodgers has managed to date at Parkhead. McInnes doesn't have a win against Barca on his CV.

 

 

 

If you're comparing McInnes and Lennon as managers, then compare their records at Aberdeen and Hibernian - two similar sized clubs. Comparing what Lennon did at Celtic, where the odds were heavily skewed in his favour, isn't a fair comparison. And even then, you mention the Barcelona result, but Lennon also produced a lot of horror results at Celtic too, namely his record in the cups.

[Shinniesta]

If you're comparing McInnes and Lennon as managers, then compare their records at Aberdeen and Hibernian - two similar sized clubs. Comparing what Lennon did at Celtic, where the odds were heavily skewed in his favour, isn't a fair comparison. And even then, you mention the Barcelona result, but Lennon also produced a lot of horror results at Celtic too, namely his record in the cups.

McInnes has only competed against Lennon's Hibs for one season so for me it's too early to say who the better manager is based on last season alone.

 

I agree it's unfair to compare McInnes at Aberdeen to Lennon at Celtic but at the same time you can't just sweep under the carpet the fact that Lennon has done better with Celtic in Europe than the domestically all conquering Rodgers has. He got through the group stages of the CL and into the last 16 knock-out stages beating the likes of Barca and Benfica along the way. Rodgers has never got anywhere near close to doing that. That alone is very impressive. I agree Lennon was generally poor in the domestic cups at Celtic that can't be denied.

 

Bottom line for me is at this moment in time it's hard to make a compelling case for McInnes being a superior manager to Lennon and vice versa. Lennon has managed at a higher level though (CL). If both stay in their respective posts for the next couple of seasons we will have a far better idea. Both had to significantly rebuild their squads this summer. Personally from what I've seen so far i'd say Lennon has recruited the better but time will tell. I sincerely hope McInnes goes on to show he is the superior manager. I just don't think he's proved it yet.

[BWG]

Im watching Robocop. What about you son?

Original or remake?

[DD1903]

Original - both 1 and 2 on Netflix

 

Fucking terrific

A classic

[BWG]

Original - both 1 and 2 on Netflix

Fucking terrific

Good man. The remake is for paedophiles.

[Panda]

McInnes has only competed against Lennon's Hibs for one season so for me it's too early to say who the better manager is based on last season alone.

I think it's more about longevity. Any manager can fluke a good season or two, it's consistently keeping it going. It's what made Ferguson the greatest and what probably makes him better than Mourinho, despite the achievements he's had too.

 

I agree it's unfair to compare McInnes at Aberdeen to Lennon at Celtic but at the same time you can't just sweep under the carpet the fact that Lennon has done better with Celtic in Europe than the domestically all conquering Rodgers has. He got through the group stages of the CL and into the last 16 knock-out stages beating the likes of Barca and Benfica along the way. Rodgers has never got anywhere near close to doing that. That alone is very impressive. I agree Lennon was generally poor in the domestic cups at Celtic that can't be denied.

But there you go. Lennon did better than Rodgers in one competition, but Rodgers has outperformed Lennon in three others. But they were different eras. I think Lennon had a better squad to cope with Europe but a harder domestic league.

 

I go back to my first point. For me it's about longevity. People like to repeat the point that McInnes has somehow had it easy without Hibs, Hearts & Rangers (ignoring that Hibs were relegated for not being good enough). But they're all back now, all strong, and yet Aberdeen have just beat two of them to reach a final.

 

Lennon also took over Hibs when they were on a relative high. McInnes has pretty much transformed the club.

 

Bottom line for me is at this moment in time it's hard to make a compelling case for McInnes being a superior manager to Lennon and vice versa. Lennon has managed at a higher level though (CL). If both stay in their respective posts for the next couple of seasons we will have a far better idea. Both had to significantly rebuild their squads this summer. Personally from what I've seen so far i'd say Lennon has recruited the better but time will tell. I sincerely hope McInnes goes on to show he is the superior manager. I just don't think he's proved it yet.

I've not said McInnes is a far superior manager. I think they're both good managers. My argument has always been I don't see why people want rid of McInnes to be replaced by Lennon, because I don't see much evidence that Lennon is better than McInnes and, crucially, if he had been the manager for the past five years would he have achieved more than McInnes has?

 

People maybe just want Lennon because they want something fresh and because he's more attack minded. But let's see if he stays at Hibs for five years and if he can consistently have them finishing 2nd four years in a row - or even third if Rangers spend so much it's hard to compete. Let's also see how his record goes in the cups.

 

It's odd how little respect McInnes gets. If he wins the cup on 2 December there will still be some who will point out the performances weren't great v Hibs and Rangers, rather than acknowledge how big an achievement it would actually be to not only beat the three top opponents from last season, but to win two trophies at one club four years apart.

[Shinniesta]

Panda

 

Good post you make a lot of good points. I do agree with you that it's mainly about longevity and is what makes SAF so unique even compared to as you mention the likes of Mourinho. Fergie was a genius that we will probably never see the likes of again and the way he adapted throughout the eras from the manager holding all the power through to the player power era was immense. Never once did he lose that authority.

 

The main reason I mentioned Lennon's CL record is that you have to take that into account when rating him overall as a manager. It was harder for Lennon to qualify from a CL Group containing Barca, Benfica and Spartak Moscow than it was for McInnes to overcome Maribor or Kairat Almaty. Lennon probably faced similar or even lesser odds against Barca that McInnes faced against Sociedad. But Lennon found a way against the odds to qualify which McInnes never has in Europe. That has to be taken into account surely?

 

The main point I was discussing about Lennon on this thread is that I don't think he would ever be accepted by Dons fans as our manager but that the vast majority of our fans would like to see our team consistently play the same positive way his teams do and have the same fearless mentality in the big games.

 

I agree with you that it is odd how little respect McInnes gets. His overall record at AFC should command a lot of respect especially the last two season's second place finishes both of which were against the odds. People beat him with a stick for only winning one trophy but we had only won one trophy since 1990 before he became manager. Hearts have won a mere 3 major trophies in the last 56 years. Hibs have won the SC once in well over 100 years. Non old firm teams winning trophies in bunches is rare as history shows so it's odd that some criticise him for that. But football fans are a fickle bunch and McInnes' flirtations with the devil last season, poor summer recruitment and general turgid style of play this season has clearly alienated a lot of fans. The win last Sunday was massive for him the biggest win of his AFC career outwith winning the LC IMO. He needs to continue to build momentum now.

 

If he wins the LC by beating Hibs at ER and then both of the old firm in Glasgow then that will clearly be his greatest achievement yet and for me will be by far the most impressive domestic cup victory of any non old firm team (both LC & SC) in a long long time. If we do manage to win the LC then any Dons fan who even thinks of picking holes in it really does need to have a serious word with themselves.

[manboobs109]

It's not that I'm lazy but I deal with long winded fuck off emails on a daily basis at work, I can't be fucked reading long winded shit on here as well.

You could just not read it. No real need to tell everyone your not reading it.

[Panda]

The main reason I mentioned Lennon's CL record is that you have to take that into account when rating him overall as a manager. It was harder for Lennon to qualify from a CL Group containing Barca, Benfica and Spartak Moscow than it was for McInnes to overcome Maribor or Kairat Almaty. Lennon probably faced similar or even lesser odds against Barca that McInnes faced against Sociedad. But Lennon found a way against the odds to qualify which McInnes never has in Europe. That has to be taken into account surely?

But you're picking out games where Lennon was the underdog and won. Beating Barca a great result but was it a one-off or did Celtic consistently go and beat bigger sides than them under Lennon?

 

What about when they were knocked out of the Champions League by Braga, then weeks later lost 4-0 to Utrecht in the Europa League and were knocked out of that?

 

Then they lost the next season to Sion, and only a Uefa reprieve saw them stay in Europe, but they still failed to get out of the Europa League group.

 

Yes, they beat Barca. It was one game. Essentially their achievement was finishing above Benfica and Moscow. The next season they were bottom of their group, losing five of their six games, including 6-1 to Barca.

 

Add in his European record with Hibs, and it's not actually that impressive.

 

McInnes let himself down v Limassol. Maribor I think we were a bit unlucky, Kairat too. But he also had good results v Groningen, Rijeka and even Burnley.

[Panda]

It's not that I'm lazy but I deal with long winded fuck off emails on a daily basis at work, I can't be fucked reading long winded shit on here as well.

It's an adult conversation, not really aimed at the likes of yourself. You just stick to making up stories and pretending to be a hardman.

[eeps]

Mind how shite lennon was in the cups whilst tim gaffer too; morton.

 

Hes no exactly captain perfection.

His managerial record is mediocre and his behaviour playing the victim following acting like a twat against fartz is a reminder that's he's a fucking clown.

[elephantstone78]

I think it's more about longevity. Any manager can fluke a good season or two, it's consistently keeping it going. It's what made Ferguson the greatest and what probably makes him better than Mourinho, despite the achievements he's had too.

 

But there you go. Lennon did better than Rodgers in one competition, but Rodgers has outperformed Lennon in three others. But they were different eras. I think Lennon had a better squad to cope with Europe but a harder domestic league.

I go back to my first point. For me it's about longevity. People like to repeat the point that McInnes has somehow had it easy without Hibs, Hearts & Rangers (ignoring that Hibs were relegated for not being good enough). But they're all back now, all strong, and yet Aberdeen have just beat two of them to reach a final.

Lennon also took over Hibs when they were on a relative high. McInnes has pretty much transformed the club.

 

I've not said McInnes is a far superior manager. I think they're both good managers. My argument has always been I don't see why people want rid of McInnes to be replaced by Lennon, because I don't see much evidence that Lennon is better than McInnes and, crucially, if he had been the manager for the past five years would he have achieved more than McInnes has?

People maybe just want Lennon because they want something fresh and because he's more attack minded. But let's see if he stays at Hibs for five years and if he can consistently have them finishing 2nd four years in a row - or even third if Rangers spend so much it's hard to compete. Let's also see how his record goes in the cups.

It's odd how little respect McInnes gets. If he wins the cup on 2 December there will still be some who will point out the performances weren't great v Hibs and Rangers, rather than acknowledge how big an achievement it would actually be to not only beat the three top opponents from last season, but to win two trophies at one club four years apart.

This sums it up perfectly for me.

People who dislike mcinnes even moan that we only won the LC on penalties as if that somehow makes it less of a success.

[Shinniesta]

But you're picking out games where Lennon was the underdog and won. Beating Barca a great result but was it a one-off or did Celtic consistently go and beat bigger sides than them under Lennon?

 

What about when they were knocked out of the Champions League by Braga, then weeks later lost 4-0 to Utrecht in the Europa League and were knocked out of that?

 

Then they lost the next season to Sion, and only a Uefa reprieve saw them stay in Europe, but they still failed to get out of the Europa League group.

 

Yes, they beat Barca. It was one game. Essentially their achievement was finishing above Benfica and Moscow. The next season they were bottom of their group, losing five of their six games, including 6-1 to Barca.

 

Add in his European record with Hibs, and it's not actually that impressive.

 

McInnes let himself down v Limassol. Maribor I think we were a bit unlucky, Kairat too. But he also had good results v Groningen, Rijeka and even Burnley.

I'm not just picking out the Barca game though I'm focusing on the fact that he got Celtic out of a CL group and into the CL knock-out stages. That's six group games plus the qualifiers. That was impressive even if it was just one season.

 

Obviously he's had poor results in Europe as well. If he had consistently managed to get Celtic to the CL knock-out stages he'd have landed a far bigger gig down south than Bolton. He's not perfect by any stretch. But the fact remains he has achieved more in Europe when the odds have been stacked against his team than McInnes has. Doesn't mean he's the better manager. But it should still be taken into account when comparing the two. In my opinion.

[muttonhumper]

I actually quite liked him as well up until today, wears his heart on his sleeve and calls a spade a spade. But his amateur dramatics the other night and his shift into full on 'victim' mode today have reminded me why i couldnt stand him when he was celtic manager.

 

Indeed.

 

Also calls into question this apparent "intelligence" he is supposed to possess.

 

No intelligent person acts like he did on the touchline the other night.

They are the actions of a fucking moron*.

 

*Also, see Kris Boyd earlier today.

 

[BWG]

I have no idea how getting beat can ever be considered a good result.

[maryhilldon]

Indeed.

 

Also calls into question this apparent "intelligence" he is supposed to possess.

 

No intelligent person acts like he did on the touchline the other night.

They are the actions of a fucking moron*.

 

*Also, see Kris Boyd earlier today.

Surely Boyd will get his comeuppance one of these days, bump into a few pissed up dandies on a night out and get his teeth knocked out? He needs sorted out.

[Dr_Manhattan]

Surely Boyd will get his comeuppance one of these days, bump into a few pissed up dandies on a night out and get his teeth knocked out? He needs sorted out.

 

We can all have a good laugh at him in a couple of years when he's sitting there on Sportscene with his gut spilling all over the sofa, trying to speak through huge chunks of pie crust in his hun gob.

[Daz the Don]

Surely Boyd will get his comeuppance one of these days, bump into a few pissed up dandies on a night out and get his teeth knocked out? He needs sorted out.

I'd like to think when he watches that back he will actually be embarrassed about his "fatboy jig".

 

However, the guy is a complete cunt so he won't be at all.

[mcdougall(4)]

He got owned by Hayley McQueen. His reaction spoke volumes... it hurt him.

 

He takes the piss out of everything around him because he's insecure.

 

 

Good point.

Well made.

[Dr_Manhattan]

Doubt it

 

He has had a really impressive career

 

Never said he hasn't. 

 

Hence it will be all the funnier when he balloons up to 20st and makes a tit of himself on telly every week.

 

You just can't help but be a contrary little cunt, can you?