Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Red_Rocket_1983]

Take it AFC are now a Scottish nationalist club?

 

Of course.

[Parklife]

Take it AFC are now a Scottish nationalist club?

I love when British Nationalist attempt to use "Nationalist" as a pejorative.

[Redforever86]

Are we fuck

 

Yes we are. That's why we had that navy strip a few years back and have sang Flower Of Scotland against every English team we have played plus the huns and Tims numerous times. 

[eeps]

I love when British Nationalist attempt to use "Nationalist" as a pejorative.

I didn't

[Ohjimmyjimmy]

Check out Billy Britain here.

[eeps]

Check out Billy Britain here.

Oh fuckwits back

[Poodler]

This SNP trope of constant comparison to england is not a bona fide argument and means nothing, except to dopes.

 

For example, I am less fat than you, but that doesn't mean I am as slim as a rake.

 

Anyway - a lower waiting time to be poisoned by bird shit at the QE hospital, or soaked by flooding at the new edinburgh hospital which might never open.

 

Great, break out the champers.

 

 

A great thing which an independent Scotland could not afford (just like free higher education).

 

Any facts for that last statement?

 

Nhs Scotland is pioneering. You would do well to acknowledge what a success it's been instead of trying to drive an agenda of a public service in crisis with the only saviour being the blue pound

[Simply Red]

I didn't

Wanting an independent Scotland has absolutely fuck all to do with singing flower of Scotland or hating the english or any of the other idiotic pish simpletons like to throw about when this subject is discussed.

I want Scotland to be independent based on rational, logical reasons. I couldnt give a fuck about any of the patriotic stuff.

[eeps]

Wanting an independent Scotland has absolutely fuck all to do with singing flower of Scotland or hating the english or any of the other idiotic pish simpletons like to throw about when this subject is discussed.

I want Scotland to be independent based on rational, logical reasons. I couldnt give a fuck about any of the patriotic stuff.

Fair enough, unfortunately there won't be much reasonable debate here when you get constantly called a hun for not supporting independence.

[Simply Red]

Fair enough, unfortunately there won't be much reasonable debate here when you get constantly called a hun for not supporting independence.

Youre doing the same branding us all the tartan army for supporting independence.

 

As an aside, I find Scottish fitba fans who look down their nose at other fans because they wear kilts instead of stone island and sing even after defeats, to be sad fucking wankbags. Who cares if a few teuchters like going to Scotland games with kilts on. I wouldnt personally but i wouldnt bitch about them like some of our own do.

[manboobs109]

You seem like a genuinely nice guy, Simperz

Why don't you just marry him then poofchops

[Jocky Balboa]

Interesting points on all sides. What I would say at this point, regarding democracy in Scotland, is that with the SNP being more and more authoritarian - both within their own ranks and as a devolved government - less and less diverse viewpoints are being given a fair hearing. The most obvious example is that, with Sturgeon and Murrell having tied independence to EU membership (as opposed to recognising them as separate issues) we have almost 40% of the voters (and 35-40% of their own voters!) now totally unrepresented in Holyrood. Another us their obsession with the ridiculousness of "gender self-ID" and its pandering to dysmorphic weirdos and perverts.

 

I am one of many YES/Leave voters who am very angry at SNP tactics in creating this false narrative that EU membership is a gold standard, especially when even Salmond and his predecessors acknowledged the viability of Norway, Switzerland and Iceland in the EEA/EFTA arrangements. If we do go into another independence referendum with EU membership as a key selling point, then at best it will be neutral to the overall outcome, if not negative, as disillusioned YES/Leave voters reject her vision.

[tightbreeks]

If only england had their own parliament up north, this shambles would never have happened. Westminster and london obviously wasn't enough for them. Hs2 will save the day, 30 billion over budget already, and the eu can stuff the 39 billion?!

[BWG]

Take it AFC are now a Scottish nationalist club?

Most certainly.

[maryhilldon]

 

 

I am one of many YES/Leave voters who am very angry at SNP tactics in creating this false narrative that EU membership is a gold standard, especially when even Salmond and his predecessors acknowledged the viability of Norway, Switzerland and Iceland in the EEA/EFTA arrangements. If we do go into another independence referendum with EU membership as a key selling point, then at best it will be neutral to the overall outcome, if not negative, as disillusioned YES/Leave voters reject her vision.

I agree. I voted YES/Leave and Sturgeon has completely hijacked the whole Brexit discussion in Scotland. A vote for SNP/Independence is not automatically a PRO-EU vote or a pro-immigration vote.

[caledonia]

A Scotland in the EU has significantly less autonomy than Scotland in the UK.

 

[Torry Tosser]

I thought it was a puzzle,Which two colours can you move to make a Z.

[BWG]

I agree. I voted YES/Leave and Sturgeon has completely hijacked the whole Brexit discussion in Scotland. A vote for SNP/Independence is not automatically a PRO-EU vote or a pro-immigration vote.

 

misread.  Never mind.

[afc_blockhead]

Middle class pensioners worrying about the value of their pensions/savings voted no, to hell with the young and less fortunate. Oh, and huns of course, they voted no as well.

 

At the other end dole scrounging losers voted yes because they had nothing to lose (this is true, plus either side can simply who voted yes or no!)

[afc_blockhead]

These are just headlines from Tory papers not real facts so aren't they. 

 

1. NHS waiting times lower in Scotland than England, free prescriptions in Scotland and not England, more drugs available in Scotland than in England. 

 

1-0

 

2. What is education exactly? Is it a grade on a piece of paper? Is the ability to get a job? 

 

In England it's a debt of £60,000 that saddles you for the rest of your life if want a degree of any merit. 

 

In Scotland it's free higher education for all and record employment. 

 

2 - 0

 

3. Policing. A few policemen lost their independence to fuck around had to become a national force. Helping to reduce knife crime in Glasgow massively and the only way to create an organisation with enough scale and coverage to tackle nationwide drugs gangs etc. 

 

Meanwhile London is the murder capital of Western Europe and a complete fucking shambles. 

 

3 - 0

 

 

 

But aye vote to be part of that bunch of fuds in London.

 

Nope, your replies are from a pro independence blog and you are regurgitating them. In terms of my post being not "real facts", you then go on to provide a maximum of a few sentences on each area with NO FACTS. 

 

1. NHS waiting times are the only metric of comparing the NHS in both countries?    . What about the shambles of the sick kids hospital in Edinburgh? Millions per month being given to the private contractor since February with talk now that it might be un-useable until 2021 because it was built on the cheap? In terms of waiting lists for packages of care being provided at home after being in hospital  are you aware that the metrics they use to record the waiting list times are different? I.E. if in Scotland you are moved to another ward/hospital while waiting to be discharged home that isn't included in the "waiting time" , in England it is. Not comparable.

 

I think you will find that NHS Scotland is chronically mismanaged, something that is easily verifiable from facts from people high up in the service.

 

Free prescriptions are a perk of being in the UK at the moment, this argument holds no strength unless an independent Scotland continued to provide this service. Also, do you think every prescription is free? Naive.

 

Then again you don't know any of the above, because you post the SNP propaganda of "waiting times in Scotland are better than England and that means the NHS is well run here".

 

2. Ah the free higher education. Again, lets see if that stayed the same in an independent Scotland. So that means Scotland has a well educated workforce? It's a very empty argument. Free Uni Education means education in Scotland is provided at a high level? Do you not think that more metrics apply to judge this?

 

3. You are honestly arguing Police Scotland isn't a disgrace? So it's a success because (with no evidence provided by you) knife crime has reduced and drug gangs are better tackled? Where is the proof of that?

 

London wise    The City of London itself has a population of nearly 9 million, with millions more in the surrounding areas. Does it really shock you that a huge city with a bigger population than the whole of Scotland experiences more knife crime than Glasgow or Edinburgh say?

 

I think you have proved yourself to be a bit of an SNP simpleton. No clue at all about the facts. Your knowledge of the NHS in Scotland coming down to waiting times only shows your ignorance   

[BWG]

Nope, your replies are from a pro independence blog and you are regurgitating them. In terms of my post being not "real facts", you then go on to provide a maximum of a few sentences on each area with NO FACTS. 

 

1. NHS waiting times are the only metric of comparing the NHS in both countries?    . What about the shambles of the sick kids hospital in Edinburgh? Millions per month being given to the private contractor since February with talk now that it might be un-useable until 2021 because it was built on the cheap? In terms of waiting lists for packages of care being provided at home after being in hospital  are you aware that the metrics they use to record the waiting list times are different? I.E. if in Scotland you are moved to another ward/hospital while waiting to be discharged home that isn't included in the "waiting time" , in England it is. Not comparable.

 

I think you will find that NHS Scotland is chronically mismanaged, something that is easily verifiable from facts from people high up in the service.

 

Free prescriptions are a perk of being in the UK at the moment, this argument holds no strength unless an independent Scotland continued to provide this service. Also, do you think every prescription is free? Naive.

 

Then again you don't know any of the above, because you post the SNP propaganda of "waiting times in Scotland are better than England and that means the NHS is well run here".

 

2. Ah the free higher education. Again, lets see if that stayed the same in an independent Scotland. So that means Scotland has a well educated workforce? It's a very empty argument. Free Uni Education means education in Scotland is provided at a high level? Do you not think that more metrics apply to judge this?

 

3. You are honestly arguing Police Scotland isn't a disgrace? So it's a success because (with no evidence provided by you) knife crime has reduced and drug gangs are better tackled? Where is the proof of that?

 

London wise    The City of London itself has a population of nearly 9 million, with millions more in the surrounding areas. Does it really shock you that a huge city with a bigger population than the whole of Scotland experiences more knife crime than Glasgow or Edinburgh say?

 

I think you have proved yourself to be a bit of an SNP simpleton. No clue at all about the facts. Your knowledge of the NHS in Scotland coming down to waiting times only shows your ignorance   

 

For someone moaning about his lack of evidence, there's a lot of unsubstantiated shite here pal.

[Simply Red]

For someone moaning about his lack of evidence, there's a lot of unsubstantiated shite here pal.

Thats what i thought too. Laughable.

[caledonia]

[Redforever86]

Nope, your replies are from a pro independence blog and you are regurgitating them. In terms of my post being not "real facts", you then go on to provide a maximum of a few sentences on each area with NO FACTS.

 

1. NHS waiting times are the only metric of comparing the NHS in both countries? . What about the shambles of the sick kids hospital in Edinburgh? Millions per month being given to the private contractor since February with talk now that it might be un-useable until 2021 because it was built on the cheap? In terms of waiting lists for packages of care being provided at home after being in hospital are you aware that the metrics they use to record the waiting list times are different? I.E. if in Scotland you are moved to another ward/hospital while waiting to be discharged home that isn't included in the "waiting time" , in England it is. Not comparable.

 

I think you will find that NHS Scotland is chronically mismanaged, something that is easily verifiable from facts from people high up in the service.

 

Free prescriptions are a perk of being in the UK at the moment, this argument holds no strength unless an independent Scotland continued to provide this service. Also, do you think every prescription is free? Naive.

 

Then again you don't know any of the above, because you post the SNP propaganda of "waiting times in Scotland are better than England and that means the NHS is well run here".

 

2. Ah the free higher education. Again, lets see if that stayed the same in an independent Scotland. So that means Scotland has a well educated workforce? It's a very empty argument. Free Uni Education means education in Scotland is provided at a high level? Do you not think that more metrics apply to judge this?

 

3. You are honestly arguing Police Scotland isn't a disgrace? So it's a success because (with no evidence provided by you) knife crime has reduced and drug gangs are better tackled? Where is the proof of that?

 

London wise The City of London itself has a population of nearly 9 million, with millions more in the surrounding areas. Does it really shock you that a huge city with a bigger population than the whole of Scotland experiences more knife crime than Glasgow or Edinburgh say?

 

I think you have proved yourself to be a bit of an SNP simpleton. No clue at all about the facts. Your knowledge of the NHS in Scotland coming down to waiting times only shows your ignorance

 

TL:DR

[craegDAMH]

Nope, your replies are from a pro independence blog and you are regurgitating them. In terms of my post being not "real facts", you then go on to provide a maximum of a few sentences on each area with NO FACTS. 

 

1. NHS waiting times are the only metric of comparing the NHS in both countries?    . What about the shambles of the sick kids hospital in Edinburgh? Millions per month being given to the private contractor since February with talk now that it might be un-useable until 2021 because it was built on the cheap? In terms of waiting lists for packages of care being provided at home after being in hospital  are you aware that the metrics they use to record the waiting list times are different? I.E. if in Scotland you are moved to another ward/hospital while waiting to be discharged home that isn't included in the "waiting time" , in England it is. Not comparable.

 

I think you will find that NHS Scotland is chronically mismanaged, something that is easily verifiable from facts from people high up in the service.

 

Free prescriptions are a perk of being in the UK at the moment, this argument holds no strength unless an independent Scotland continued to provide this service. Also, do you think every prescription is free? Naive.

 

Then again you don't know any of the above, because you post the SNP propaganda of "waiting times in Scotland are better than England and that means the NHS is well run here".

 

2. Ah the free higher education. Again, lets see if that stayed the same in an independent Scotland. So that means Scotland has a well educated workforce? It's a very empty argument. Free Uni Education means education in Scotland is provided at a high level? Do you not think that more metrics apply to judge this?

 

3. You are honestly arguing Police Scotland isn't a disgrace? So it's a success because (with no evidence provided by you) knife crime has reduced and drug gangs are better tackled? Where is the proof of that?

 

London wise    The City of London itself has a population of nearly 9 million, with millions more in the surrounding areas. Does it really shock you that a huge city with a bigger population than the whole of Scotland experiences more knife crime than Glasgow or Edinburgh say?

 

I think you have proved yourself to be a bit of an SNP simpleton. No clue at all about the facts. Your knowledge of the NHS in Scotland coming down to waiting times only shows your ignorance   

 

Tell you what, this is an incredibly condescending response from someone who doesn't understand per capita crime numbers are used to compare different populations.....

[eeps]

Youre doing the same branding us all the tartan army for supporting independence.

 

As an aside, I find Scottish fitba fans who look down their nose at other fans because they wear kilts instead of stone island and sing even after defeats, to be sad fucking wankbags. Who cares if a few teuchters like going to Scotland games with kilts on. I wouldnt personally but i wouldnt bitch about them like some of our own do.

OK agreed, that was foolish, my point is that AUOB marches remind me of tartan army, rather feckless. I have been to plenty Scotland games some abroad and like others find the 'whaes like us?' attitude irritating.

 

My fundamental point about the march is that the AUOB organisers have been creaming money from collections made and have had a public falling out.

[Redforever86]

OK agreed, that was foolish, my point is that AUOB marches remind me of tartan army, rather feckless. I have been to plenty Scotland games some abroad and like others find the 'whaes like us?' attitude irritating.

 

My fundamental point about the march is that the AUOB organisers have been creaming money from collections made and have had a public falling out.

The biggest tartan army boy I knew was a no voter.

 

Make of that what you will.

[Parklife]

The biggest tartan army boy I knew was a no voter.

 

Make of that what you will.

Yup. Like all the hooray Hamish's that go the rugby.

 

Vast, vast majority will be No voters.

[caledonia]

OK agreed, that was foolish, my point is that AUOB marches remind me of tartan army, rather feckless. I have been to plenty Scotland games some abroad and like others find the 'whaes like us?' attitude irritating.

 

My fundamental point about the march is that the AUOB organisers have been creaming money from collections made and have had a public falling out.

What’s your opinion of the orange marches and Dark money Ruth

Funnily enough you have never posted about that.

 

Britnat troll who still has not answered the question who he votes for.

[fatjim]

 

Love Picasso.