Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[caledonia]

18 minutes ago, Roberto said:

It's a forum with strangers. Who gives a fuck.

Loser behaviour caring about that shit on a fitba forum.

 

18 minutes ago, Roberto said:

Zzzzz.

You have genuine special needs.

For someone who does not give a fuck you are posting heaps on this topic.

Do you have friends issues

[caledonia]

1 minute ago, Roberto said:

Never watched it.

Ok i will give you that one lol

[Parklife]

31 minutes ago, Roberto said:

It's a forum with strangers. Who gives a fuck.

Loser behaviour caring about that shit on a fitba forum.

You were only talking about caring about on a forum? 

That wasn't specified at all. 

[Reed or deed]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Who someone votes for represents what they believe in, who they are as a person. 

It's pretty fucking important. 

Considering there are only really 2 (maybe 3 in scotland) political parties to vote for, i would not agree that who someone votes for represents what they believe in.

At the end of the day you don’t have a lot of choice. Lots of people vote for parties simply because they like them less than others.

[For Fecks Sake]

47 minutes ago, CCB III said:

1.) Why couldn't a central bank be made? What have other countries done upon independence? Surely there's ways around it whereby we can avoid calamity. There's probably a sensible answer to be found, but it'll undoubtedly be obscured by WM/Unionists. 

Good question but unfortunately one that the SNP have neither answered, or offered a sensible workable solution for.

WM/Unionist will continue to focus on stuff like this because it's the very thing that really fucking matters and they know that the SNP don't (as yet) have a sensible answer for so will continue to raise it until they do.

Either way it's Saturday night, pints to be drunk and we can do this all again another day ?

[Kilgore Trout]

22 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

Aberdeen is Dundee but with more Audis

Edit - better football team as well

Much better bands/groups over the years as well. No comparison.

[Kilgore Trout]

5 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

Totally agree with you min on everything you state about the odious filth that are the Tory government.

You define the likes of me for being a unionist simply because I wish for us to remain part of the UK, for reasons already  stated. I would define myself as an economical realist and socialist. 

I don't trust the SNP one iota and hypothetically, if Scotland gained independence and they were still in power at that time, our nation would end up going backwards, reminiscent of a third world country.

Our town and city centres reflect already how bad things are economically, being part of an alliance. It can only get worse if we got it alone. 

41 years on and this song is still applicable today.......

 

And when exactly are you going to get a remotely left leaning government if you keep voting for the union min? 

[Kilgore Trout]

13 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Good question but unfortunately one that the SNP have neither answered, or offered a sensible workable solution for.

WM/Unionist will continue to focus on stuff like this because it's the very thing that really fucking matters and they know that the SNP don't (as yet) have a sensible answer for so will continue to raise it until they do.

Either way it's Saturday night, pints to be drunk and we can do this all again another day ?

Why is it that people continue to conflate independence with the SNP ? Just because Scotland votes for independence doesn’t mean we are stuck with the SNP in their present embodiment for ever more.

[CCB III]

20 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Good question but unfortunately one that the SNP have neither answered, or offered a sensible workable solution for.

WM/Unionist will continue to focus on stuff like this because it's the very thing that really fucking matters and they know that the SNP don't (as yet) have a sensible answer for so will continue to raise it until they do.

Either way it's Saturday night, pints to be drunk and we can do this all again another day ?

But my question is, can you get an answer out of someone who doesn't want to give you one? Will WM/England provide an answer that isn't to their benefit?

 

And if so, isn't that part of the wider point?

[patrick bateman]

1 hour ago, CCB III said:

1.) Why couldn't a central bank be made? What have other countries done upon independence? Surely there's ways around it whereby we can avoid calamity. There's probably a sensible answer to be found, but it'll undoubtedly be obscured by WM/Unionists. 
 

2.) Yeah. I get the apprehension, totally. It just seems like if there's a will, there's a way. Is there ever going to be clarification on it if WM/Engerland refuse to play ball on it? Surely it's in their interests to obscure the possibility of it being resolved? 
 

You get a lot of "the SNP can't give answers on this" but is there even a way they can get any? 
 

I genuinely don't know. 

Well 

1)

The plan would be to start a central bank but that wasn't the question you asked, you said that the ex boe head had said Scotland could keep the pound.

It's called sterlingisation.

Look it up.

To not have a central bank and pegging your currency to another countrys central bank decisions on monetary policy, is to put it mildly, a walking disaster.

But I'm sure there is a meme for that.

And all will be fine in the world.

2) The will involves people being willing to sacrifice a lot of things they have worked hard for on a wing and a prayer, and that is why they would like concrete plans.

Imagine if you will, that you have a mortgage and your interest rate is x but due to the liability being held in another country they have a monetary policy to raise interest rates in their country in order to deal with an economic problem in their country. 

This results in your mortgage rate going from x to 1.5x 

How you affording that ? 

 

 

[patrick bateman]

3 minutes ago, CCB III said:

But my question is, can you get an answer out of someone who doesn't want to give you one? Will WM/England provide an answer that isn't to their benefit?

 

And if so, isn't that part of the wider point?

To what question would the UK govt be providing an answer?

[frankie_mac's_4]

9 minutes ago, patrick bateman said:

Well 

1)

The plan would be to start a central bank but that wasn't the question you asked, you said that the ex boe head had said Scotland could keep the pound.

It's called sterlingisation.

Look it up.

To not have a central bank and pegging your currency to another countrys central bank decisions on monetary policy, is to put it mildly, a walking disaster.

But I'm sure there is a meme for that.

And all will be fine in the world.

2) The will involves people being willing to sacrifice a lot of things they have worked hard for on a wing and a prayer, and that is why they would like concrete plans.

Imagine if you will, that you have a mortgage and your interest rate is x but due to the liability being held in another country they have a monetary policy to raise interest rates in their country in order to deal with an economic problem in their country. 

This results in your mortgage rate going from x to 1.5x 

How you affording that ? 

 

 

^ in a nutshell.

I've always felt the currency dubiety was 2014's head shot. Until there's a clearly demonstrated and viable plan to a solution, I think it always will be 

[CCB III]

3 minutes ago, patrick bateman said:

To what question would the UK govt be providing an answer?

1.) If we'd be able to set up our own national bank before we became an independent country, to facilitate independence. 
 

Does the ScotGov currently have the power to set up its own national bank? And if not, how can anyone expect them to provide an answer to the question? 
 

How difficult would it be to start up your own central bank without a change in currency? Wouldn't that be easy? 
 

2.) I'm sure that's quite plausible for some people, but the reality of state pensions has changed for a great deal of people. As in, they don't get one anymore or never got one. A vote for independence will have a generational impact, it seems short sighted to vote No because some might not get as much pension as they thought, or some might not get it at all. I'm sure there could be a claims system for any people who lost their pensions or never got their full value. Considering many don't get state pensions at the moment, it would be a relatively short term problem and fix, no?

 

Currently, we can't borrow money like a normal country can, surely the ability to do so impacts these issues? 

 

[CCB III]

3 minutes ago, frankie_mac's_4 said:

^ in a nutshell.

I've always felt the currency dubiety was 2014's head shot. Until there's a clearly demonstrated and viable plan to a solution, I think it always will be 

But will we ever be given a plan? I find it hard to believe the SNP never tried to raise the issue with the powers that be. 
 

Is it not entirely plausible those in control or those who can provide answers would be deliberately aloof to get the political outcome they wanted? 
 

 

[frankie_mac's_4]

1 minute ago, CCB III said:

But will we ever be given a plan? I find it hard to believe the SNP never tried to raise the issue with the powers that be. 
 

Is it not entirely plausible those in control or those who can provide answers would be deliberately aloof to get the political outcome they wanted? 
 

 

The SNP argument was that an independent Scotland as a centuries old contributor to the UK economy had every right to use sterling backed by the BOE - which logically must be true (fuck knows aboot the legalities). However, and independent Scotland leaving economic and monetary control with the BOE negates any economic control we'd have over the currency - we'd be as well pegging the currency to North Korea.

And that is what they need to demonstrate a working solution to - until they do its a dead duck IYAM 

[patrick bateman]

39 minutes ago, CCB III said:

1.) If we'd be able to set up our own national bank before we became an independent country, to facilitate independence. 
 

Does the ScotGov currently have the power to set up its own national bank? And if not, how can anyone expect them to provide an answer to the question? 
 

How difficult would it be to start up your own central bank without a change in currency? Wouldn't that be easy? 
 

2.) I'm sure that's quite plausible for some people, but the reality of state pensions has changed for a great deal of people. As in, they don't get one anymore or never got one. A vote for independence will have a generational impact, it seems short sighted to vote No because some might not get as much pension as they thought, or some might not get it at all. I'm sure there could be a claims system for any people who lost their pensions or never got their full value. Considering many don't get state pensions at the moment, it would be a relatively short term problem and fix, no?

 

Currently, we can't borrow money like a normal country can, surely the ability to do so impacts these issues? 

 

With respect I don't think you understand what a central bank is or does.

[Parklife]

4 minutes ago, patrick bateman said:

With respect I don't think you understand what a central bank is or does.

Do you understand that the "Bank of England" doesn't belong to England? 

[patrick bateman]

11 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Do you understand that the "Bank of England" doesn't belong to England? 

Yes 

Do you have a point? 

[frankie_mac's_4]

6 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Do you understand that the "Bank of England" doesn't belong to England? 

Moot point though Parkie. 

Relying on a foreign country's central bank to back your currency opens a newly independent country to a world of shit. SNP in 2014 never did clarify how that was going to be workable - half arsed answers to very practical concerns that were brought up

[CCB III]

8 minutes ago, patrick bateman said:

With respect I don't think you understand what a central bank is or does.

That doesn't answer any of my questions though. 
 

Are we just beholden to England so long as we are tied up in their central bank?

 

Why would they ever let us set up a central bank for the purpose of independence? if they don't want us to go it alone? 
 

I admit I'm ignorant to the world of finance in this particular way, it just seems like people are demanding questions for answers you can only find after the deed is done. 
 

Which in my opinion, is ridiculous. Part of it will be a working out process, no country goes independent and has all the varying potential issues ironed out at the click of a finger. 
 

It seems to be the people who don't want it are people who are fine in life, they don't have a want for change, because it's been good to them. I don't begrudge them that, if you're comfortable and doing fine, why willingly change your circumstance to a situation that might be of detriment to you? I get that. 
 

I'd be interested to know if there was ever a study done on independence and income. I would suggest those on lower incomes would agitate for change, and those on higher wouldn't. I might be totally wrong, just thinking out loud. 

 

On the flip side, many people are disillusioned with the politics that seemingly govern our lives, and are fed up not feeling like they are being heard. They are also, possibly, in a less favourable position to the one stated above, so think any change is better than sitting in the pig shit of today. Why not? Take a chance, type thing. 
 

What I don't get is the idea that Scotland as a country, nation of people, wouldn't be capable of sorting out the relevant problems without English help or without it being a disaster. 
 

What did all the nations who gained sovereignty from Britain do? There's surely a blueprint in there somewhere. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[CCB III]

5 minutes ago, frankie_mac's_4 said:

Moot point though Parkie. 

Relying on a foreign country's central bank to back your currency opens a newly independent country to a world of shit. SNP in 2014 never did clarify how that was going to be workable - half arsed answers to very practical concerns that were brought up

Why can't we create our own central bank? 

Does it become an issue of revenue owed etc? What's the deal?

[Parklife]

7 minutes ago, frankie_mac's_4 said:

Moot point though Parkie. 

Relying on a foreign country's central bank to back your currency opens a newly independent country to a world of shit. SNP in 2014 never did clarify how that was going to be workable - half arsed answers to very practical concerns that were brought up

It's as much our central bank as it is England's. That's the point. 

[patrick bateman]

3 minutes ago, CCB III said:

That doesn't answer any of my questions though. 
 

Are we just beholden to England so long as we are tied up in their central bank?

 

Why would they ever let us set up a central bank for the purpose of independence? if they don't want us to go it alone? 
 

I admit I'm ignorant to the world of finance in this particular way, it just seems like people are demanding questions for answers you can only find after the deed is done. 
 

Which in my opinion, is ridiculous. Part of it will be a working out process, no country goes independent and has all the varying potential issues ironed out at the click of a finger. 
 

It seems to be the people who don't want it are people who are fine in life, they don't have a want for change, because it's been good to them. I don't begrudge them that, if you're comfortable and doing fine, why willingly change your circumstance to a situation that might be of detriment to you? I get that. 
 

I'd be interested to know if there was ever a study done on independence and income. I would suggest those on lower incomes would agitate for change, and those on higher wouldn't. I might be totally wrong, just thinking out loud. 

 

On the flip side, many people are disillusioned with the politics that seemingly govern our lives, and are fed up not feeling like they are being heard. They are also, possibly, in a less favourable position to the one stated above, so think any change is better than sitting in the pig shit of today. Why not? Take a chance, type thing. 
 

What I don't get is the idea that Scotland as a country, nation of people, wouldn't be capable of sorting out the relevant problems without English help or without it being a disaster. 
 

What did all the nations who gained sovereignty from Britain do? There's surely a blueprint in there somewhere. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Do some research on what a central bank is and does.

It'll answer your question.

[patrick bateman]

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

It's as much our central bank as it is England's. That's the point. 

But not if Scotland is no longer part of the UK.

 

[patrick bateman]

Badu economic illiteracy really is an issue, wider than I'd thought.

[CCB III]

Just now, patrick bateman said:

Badu economic illiteracy really is an issue, wider than I'd thought.

Ok then, what's a way around this issue? 
 

 

[frankie_mac's_4]

Just now, CCB III said:

That doesn't answer any of my questions though. 
 

Are we just beholden to England so long as we are tied up in their central bank?

 

Why would they ever let us set up a central bank for the purpose of independence? if they don't want us to go it alone? 
 

I admit I'm ignorant to the world of finance in this particular way, it just seems like people are demanding questions for answers you can only find after the deed is done. 
 

Which in my opinion, is ridiculous. Part of it will be a working out process, no country goes independent and has all the varying potential issues ironed out at the click of a finger. 
 

It seems to be the people who don't want it are people who are fine in life, they don't have a want for change, because it's been good to them. I don't begrudge them that, if you're comfortable and doing fine, why willingly change your circumstance to a situation that might be of detriment to you? I get that. 
 

I'd be interested to know if there was ever a study done on independence and income. I would suggest those on lower incomes would agitate for change, and those on higher wouldn't. I might be totally wrong, just thinking out loud. 

 

On the flip side, many people are disillusioned with the politics that seemingly govern our lives, and are fed up not feeling like they are being heard. They are also, possibly, in a less favourable position to the one stated above, so think any change is better than sitting in the pig shit of today. Why not? Take a chance, type thing. 
 

What I don't get is the idea that Scotland as a country, nation of people, wouldn't be capable of sorting out the relevant problems without English help or without it being a disaster. 
 

What did all the nations who gained sovereignty from Britain do? There's surely a blueprint in there somewhere. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

An independent Scotland could found its own central bank, yes. The state would finance itself on taxation and national debt by issuing bonds same as any other country but the cost of borrowing would inevitably be high - the country would start off heavily in debt. Whether you believe that's worthwhile and / or surmountable is maybe a key decider in your vote on going independent.

But the SNP answer on currency was obvious - to continue using sterling. Which is nae obvious at all and potentially monumental fuck up 

[CCB III]

5 minutes ago, patrick bateman said:

Do some research on what a central bank is and does.

It'll answer your question.

I have a surface understanding of what a central bank is/does. 
 

I don't understand why Scotland couldn't have its own one. At some point in time, they've had to be made, so why not again? 
 

 

[frankie_mac's_4]

7 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It's as much our central bank as it is England's. That's the point. 

But it doesn't solve the currency question. Scotland's economy would still be at the whim of Westminster policy

[CCB III]

2 minutes ago, frankie_mac's_4 said:

An independent Scotland could found its own central bank, yes. The state would finance itself on taxation and national debt by issuing bonds same as any other country but the cost of borrowing would inevitably be high - the country would start off heavily in debt. Whether you believe that's worthwhile and / or surmountable is maybe a key decider in your vote on going independent.

But the SNP answer on currency was obvious - to continue using sterling. Which is nae obvious at all and potentially monumental fuck up 

I don't see an issue with starting off in debt if you consider the debt nations are able to rack up with minimal consequence. 
 

Could they not differentiate Scottish Sterling from English? Meaning much of the same money is in circulation anyway. 
 

They don't accept Scottish noted in England sometimes, I never understood that. 
 

Don't we technically have our own money printed and in circulation?