Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Old Wing Stand]

I wonder why the English are so desperate to keep hold of us when we are supposed to be a drain on them ?

[robbojunior]

 

their vote is being set aside by the leader of a minority government on the basis of...

On the basis of the fact that support for independence is still polling at around 50% showing it's clearly not a 'settled' issue and that pro independence parties form the majority in the Scottish parliament and that they stated in their manifesto that subsequently won them 56 of 59 Westminster seats that a material change in circumstances would require a second referendum.

 

Apart from that nihin.

[BWG]

Let the fear mongering begin.

[robbojunior]

Set aside the snp hatred for a moment, I struggle to understand why anyone would choose a system whereby 5 millon Scots could vote for one party and they never win. Seems mentally undemocratic. As opposed to a system where if the snp as shite, you can vote them out, and they actually get voted out. Also if your council tax is being hiked, you can vote for someone who will stop it, and they might even win!

[Jds192]

Let the fear mongering begin.

 

Fear mongering comes from both sides as it did last time.

 

Just as much as one side wants folk to be scared of leaving UK the other wants folk to be scared of leaving EU.

[caledonia]

So far this thread highlights the exact reasons I canna be arsed with Indyref#2!

 

One camp claiming this and that and the other rubbishing it claiming the opposite.

 

Truth is much like Brexit until we know the result no fucker really knows what will happen.

 

Exactly so how about forgetting all the arguments and just vote for Scotland to run its own affairs rather than another country no matter what

Every other country that has got independence from the uk seems to have managed just fine

[mcdougall(4)]

On the basis of the fact that support for independence is still polling at around 50% showing it's clearly not a 'settled' issue and that pro independence parties form the majority in the Scottish parliament and that they stated in their manifesto that subsequently won them 56 of 59 Westminster seats that a material change in circumstances would require a second referendum.

 

Apart from that nihin.

 

your argument seems to be that a leave vote is worth more somehow than a remain vote

surely everyone's vote is of equal value.

more people have voted against independence than for it at the referendum

(independence supporting parties polled between 51.3&51.7% in 2015 ge)

(independence supporting parties polled between 47.1&48.3% in 2016 se)

fairly safe to say that as many have voted against independence parties

so where is the mandate

 

 

 

are we to have regular plebiscites until the snp get the result they want

 

oh and those mps in westminster we pay for doing fuck all between now and whenever this is...at what point is enough enough?

 

I'm not against the principle of independence but now isn't the right time

(although having said that I'm for less borders not more)

[robbojunior]

 

your argument seems to be that a leave vote is worth more somehow than a remain vote

surely everyone's vote is of equal value.

more people have voted against independence than for it at the referendum

(independence supporting parties polled between 51.3&51.7% in 2015 ge)

(independence supporting parties polled between 47.1&48.3% in 2016 se)

fairly safe to say that as many have voted against independence parties

so where is the mandate

 

 

 

are we to have regular plebiscites until the snp get the result they want

 

oh and those mps in westminster we pay for doing fuck all between now and whenever this is...at what point is enough enough?

 

I'm not against the principle of independence but now isn't the right time

(although having said that I'm for less borders not more)

No my argument is that both sides vote is equally important and therefore while opinion is nearly 50/50 the question of independence is not settled. It's very much still on the table for debate.

[The Boofon]

This will be my last post on this thread.

 

Leaving the EU is grounds for a referendum as it is a huge constitutional change that Scotland by a significant majority voted against. That cannot be denied.

 

However the timing of this isn't appropriate. It should have been announced after Article 50 is enabled.

 

There will now be two years of utter shite spouted from both sides.

 

Whatever camp you're in (and please God don't let it be another Yes/No or Yes /BetterTogether naff as fuck sloganfest) do your research, don't swallow what the MSM tell you and try and think for yourself.

 

I personally think it's the right call at the wrong time. I'd vote Yes tomorrow but will wait and see what shitstorm erupts from Article 50 before making my mind up. I suggest you all do likewise.

 

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

 

Over and out.

[mcdougall(4)]

No my argument is that both sides vote is equally important and therefore while opinion is nearly 50/50 the question of independence is not settled. It's very much still on the table for debate.

 

so if its 51:49 to leave

is that it settled?

 

because that is a final decision, and there's no going back

[craegDAMH]

 

so if its 51:49 to leave

is that it settled?

 

because that is a final decision, and there's no going back

 

Yeah, probably.

 

As soon as we stop voting the SNP into government, it's off the table. If we keep voting them in while this is in their manifesto, then it's on the table.

[mcdougall(4)]

Let the fear mongering begin.

 

#alternativefacts

[robbojunior]

 

so if its 51:49 to leave

is that it settled?

 

because that is a final decision, and there's no going back

If Scots don't want independence, stop voting SNP

[The Lighthouse]

I will always vote for independence because, even at a very basic level, why would I want to be associated with the UK? Of course the economy and the money in our pocket is important, but it`s surely not the only means of analysing the argument.

 

The sad fact is that we will probably lose again and that will be that.

[Jonty]

Set aside the snp hatred for a moment, I struggle to understand why anyone would choose a system whereby 5 millon Scots could vote for one party and they never win. Seems mentally undemocratic. As opposed to a system where if the snp as shite, you can vote them out, and they actually get voted out. Also if your council tax is being hiked, you can vote for someone who will stop it, and they might even win!

By your logic every democracy would be reduced into an electorate of one. What happens if Aberdeen votes differently from the rest of Scotland in the referendum, and votes to remain part of U.K., should it be allowed to?

 

We voted no last time knowing full well there would be an EU referendum (it was announced in 2013) to come and therefore if Scotland votes to remain, which it did, we were fully aware that the EU referendum would be decided by the whole of the UK, not just part of it.

 

"A material change in circumstances" = any excuse the SNP can think of. Brexit won't even have happened in the timescale they are proposing.

 

Can anybody explain why the SNP want independence so much to then hand powers over to Brussels?

[robbojunior]

By your logic every democracy would be reduced into an electorate of one. What happens if Aberdeen votes differently from the rest of Scotland in the referendum, and votes to remain part of U.K., should it be allowed to?

 

We voted no last time knowing full well there would be an EU referendum (it was announced in 2013) to come and therefore if Scotland votes to remain, which it did, we were fully aware that the EU referendum would be decided by the whole of the UK, not just part of it.

 

"A material change in circumstances" = any excuse the SNP can think of. Brexit won't even have happened in the timescale they are proposing.

 

Can anybody explain why the SNP want independence so much to then hand powers over to Brussels?

Don't be so obtuse. Scotland is a country. Whether you choose to deny reality or not. The electorate is the nation of Scotland. Aberdeen is not. I'm reducing the electorate to the electorate as it is in reality.

[mcdougall(4)]

If Scots don't want independence, stop voting SNP

 

the majority don't vote snp

[mcdougall(4)]

 

Yeah, probably.

 

As soon as we stop voting the SNP into government, it's off the table. If we keep voting them in while this is in their manifesto, then it's on the table.

and thus will hang over scotland like a sword of damocles in perpetuity

[manboobs109]

This will be my last post on this thread.

 

Leaving the EU is grounds for a referendum as it is a huge constitutional change that Scotland by a significant majority voted against. That cannot be denied.

 

However the timing of this isn't appropriate. It should have been announced after Article 50 is enabled.

 

There will now be two years of utter shite spouted from both sides.

 

Whatever camp you're in (and please God don't let it be another Yes/No or Yes /BetterTogether naff as fuck sloganfest) do your research, don't swallow what the MSM tell you and try and think for yourself.

 

I personally think it's the right call at the wrong time. I'd vote Yes tomorrow but will wait and see what shitstorm erupts from Article 50 before making my mind up. I suggest you all do likewise.

 

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

 

Over and out.

Agree with almost all of that. Well said sir.

[Jonty]

Don't be so obtuse. Scotland is a country. Whether you choose to deny reality or not. The electorate is the nation of Scotland. Aberdeen is not. I'm reducing the electorate to the electorate as it is in reality.

Like the electorate of the EU referendum was the UK you mean?

[robbojunior]

Like the electorate of the EU referendum was the UK you mean?

Correct. My opinion is that leaving the eu represents a fundamental change in relation to the circumstances in which the first referendum was decided but my argument about why Scotland should be independent has nothing to do with eu membership or otherwise. It's a separate issue entirely. Being pro independence does not preclude you from being anti eu

[caledonia]

 

the majority don't vote snp

 

correct but the majority do vote for independence parties

remember even if you hate the snp you can still vote for independence

you might like the greens who also back independence

[mcdougall(4)]

 

correct but the majority do vote for independence parties

remember even if you hate the snp you can still vote for independence

you might like the greens who also back independence

 

debatable

[King Street Loon]

This will be my last post on this thread.

 

Leaving the EU is grounds for a referendum as it is a huge constitutional change that Scotland by a significant majority voted against. That cannot be denied.

 

However the timing of this isn't appropriate. It should have been announced after Article 50 is enabled.

 

There will now be two years of utter shite spouted from both sides.

 

Whatever camp you're in (and please God don't let it be another Yes/No or Yes /BetterTogether naff as fuck sloganfest) do your research, don't swallow what the MSM tell you and try and think for yourself.

 

I personally think it's the right call at the wrong time. I'd vote Yes tomorrow but will wait and see what shitstorm erupts from Article 50 before making my mind up. I suggest you all do likewise.

 

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

 

Over and out.

Excellent post.

Sums up things nicely.

+1

[The Oxford Don]

This will be my last post on this thread.

Leaving the EU is grounds for a referendum as it is a huge constitutional change that Scotland by a significant majority voted against. That cannot be denied.

However the timing of this isn't appropriate. It should have been announced after Article 50 is enabled.

There will now be two years of utter shite spouted from both sides.

Whatever camp you're in (and please God don't let it be another Yes/No or Yes /BetterTogether naff as fuck sloganfest) do your research, don't swallow what the MSM tell you and try and think for yourself.

I personally think it's the right call at the wrong time. I'd vote Yes tomorrow but will wait and see what shitstorm erupts from Article 50 before making my mind up. I suggest you all do likewise.

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

Over and out.

Absolute belter of a post.

 

Respect.

[vanderark14]

Absolute belter of a post.

Respect.

I agree it's a great post but I'd ask anyone who doesn't want to read anyone's posts to ignore them or don't open the thread. It's really easy, I don't open half the threads on this forum because they have nothing I want to read. I've never understood why people complain about the content of threads, just don't open them.

[Ohjimmyjimmy]

I'm all for indyRef2, if anything just to wind up the Billy Britain wanks like Jonty, 360 and ClydsdaleSheep.

[rumpus]

This will be my last post on this thread.

 

Leaving the EU is grounds for a referendum as it is a huge constitutional change that Scotland by a significant majority voted against. That cannot be denied.

 

However the timing of this isn't appropriate. It should have been announced after Article 50 is enabled.

 

There will now be two years of utter shite spouted from both sides.

 

Whatever camp you're in (and please God don't let it be another Yes/No or Yes /BetterTogether naff as fuck sloganfest) do your research, don't swallow what the MSM tell you and try and think for yourself.

 

I personally think it's the right call at the wrong time. I'd vote Yes tomorrow but will wait and see what shitstorm erupts from Article 50 before making my mind up. I suggest you all do likewise.

 

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

 

Over and out.

 

 

There's a clever level headed loon behind the shambolic hairdo after all...

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Final thought. Caledonia, Clydeside to name but two, you won't sway people on here with your propeganda bullshit so rather than turn this thread into 3000 pages of utter plum keep your moronic thoughts to yourself. We'll make our own minds up without your bullshit.

 

I dont think anyone really expects to sway anyones view on a forum such as this, but I think people enjoy discussing it.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I agree it's a great post but I'd ask anyone who doesn't want to read anyone's posts to ignore them or don't open the thread. It's really easy, I don't open half the threads on this forum because they have nothing I want to read. I've never understood why people complain about the content of threads, just don't open them.

 

Thats a good post from you VDA (have you struck your head or something?).

 

I thought Boofs was good except the bit where he essentially asked people not to discuss a 2nd referendum.

 

As you say, its isn't obligatory to read anything.