Summer 2021

[maryhilldon]

15 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

 

This thought process that we shouldn't bring in good players in their mid twenties is fundamentally flawed. 

Nobody sensible  would have that thought process. 

[slippers]

1 hour ago, aberdeen1970 said:

It costs you about £300k in compensation to sign a 23 year old out of contract. 

£500k for a 25 year old international in contract is not exactly a big jump. 

And it's surely a bigger gamble signing an unknown youngster or a player near the end of his career than someone who is performing well at their peak years?? 

 

We will never amount to anything if not willing to pay 500k for a prospect! 

[BonnieDon]

1 hour ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Even still. It was a small profit after a few years of good service.  A successful signing on just about every level. 

This thought process that we shouldn't bring in good players in their mid twenties is fundamentally flawed. 

Thats not what I'm saying. Absolutely we should be looking to sign good players who are in their mid 20's however don't kid yourself into thinking we'd make a huge profit on McGrath if he did sign for us. Selling Johnny Hayes for 1.3 million was an anomaly at his age. Personally I would prefer we opted to sign a talented 19 year like Daniel Mackay (the next Ryan Christie) over McGrath if we are spending a decent figure just for the fact he potentially has a greater resale value.

You continually discredit Jenks. You know nothing about the lad. It's been widely reported he was a stand out in the EPL 2 league. It's fairly telling that numerous English Championship sides were chasing him. Brighton see him as one of their hottest prospects in recent years. Allan Russell was the persuading factor and holds the lad in very high regard as does Glass. Glass went as far as to say we are "very fortunate" to have him. Reserve judgement until he's actually featured for us.

Also Gurr is a very smart signing. He understands the system, he's on peanuts, its only for 1 year, he won't hinder Ramsay's progress, Hernandez is back in January and he's only an interim signing until Ramsay can solidify himself into the first team. Why sign a SOD type player who would limit Ramsay's game time. Ramsay looks very promising and after a full season in the first team he has the potential to be a very valuable player for us.

[aberdeen1970]

5 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

Thats not what I'm saying. Absolutely we should be looking to sign good players who are in their mid 20's however don't kid yourself into thinking we'd make a huge profit on McGrath if he did sign for us. Selling Johnny Hayes for 1.3 million was an anomaly at his age. Personally I would prefer we opted to sign a talented 19 year like Daniel Mackay (the next Ryan Christie) over McGrath if we are spending a decent figure just for the fact he potentially has a greater resale value.

You continually discredit Jenks. You know nothing about the lad. It's been widely reported he was a stand out in the EPL 2 league. It's fairly telling that numerous English Championship sides were chasing him. Brighton see him as one of their hottest prospects in recent years. Allan Russell was the persuading factor and holds the lad in very high regard as does Glass. Glass went as far as to say we are "very fortunate" to have him. Reserve judgement until he's actually featured for us.

Also Gurr is a very smart signing. He understands the system, he's on peanuts, its only for 1 year, he won't hinder Ramsay's progress, Hernandez is back in January and he's only an interim signing until Ramsay can solidify himself into the first team. Why sign a SOD type player who would limit Ramsay's game time. Ramsay looks very promising and after a full season in the first team he has the potential to be a very valuable player for us.

We don't need to make a huge profit on every single signing.  We need good players. 

Hedges arrived on a free, will likely leave on a free.  Same with Shinnie. McLean we made a small profit on. You're measuring everything on profit rather than contribution to the team. 

I've not been harsh on Jenks or Gurr. I've never seen them play and I'd guess neither have you.  Yet you proclaim they are great signings. I'm suggesting that anyone suggesting that these are great signings based on their playing record so far or anything that has been 'widely reported' are being speculative at best.  And to expect Glass to say that two of his signings are anything other than good ones is hardly earth shattering, he's not going to say we've signed shite is he? 

Let's just see them play before we start talking about how great they are. 

 

[maryhilldon]

15 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

Glass went as far as to say we are "very fortunate" to have him. 

Remember McInnes said that about James Wilson? 

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, maryhilldon said:

Remember McInnes said that about James Wilson? 

Trying to tell us that these two are great signings without having seen either of them play is an insult to our intelligence. 

[BonnieDon]

4 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Trying to tell us that these two are great signings without having seen either of them play is an insult to our intelligence. 

No I haven't seen either of them play nor did I ever refer to them as "great" signings. I do think they are smart/sensible signings given current financial climate. I've already stated my reasonings as to why I think so in previous posts. 

I'm quite excited by the prospect of Jenks given the reported hype. He could be an absolutely dud however Russell appears to have identified him and holds him in high regard. I trust Russell's assessment of the player. And again it's fairly telling that a host of English Championship sides wanted him. He can't be that bad.

@Maryhilldon - yeah McInnes said that....not Glass.

[aberdeen1970]

23 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

No I haven't seen either of them play nor did I ever refer to them as "great" signings. I do think they are smart/sensible signings given current financial climate. I've already stated my reasonings as to why I think so in previous posts. 

I'm quite excited by the prospect of Jenks given the reported hype. He could be an absolutely dud however Russell appears to have identified him and holds him in high regard. I trust Russell's assessment of the player. And again it's fairly telling that a host of English Championship sides wanted him. He can't be that bad.

@Maryhilldon - yeah McInnes said that....not Glass.

We'll find out soon enough and I hope you are right. 

But believing everything you read in the media is naive.  Most transfer speculation is complete shite.  If Championship clubs really wanted him on loan he'd have most likely ended up there rather than up here. I suspect he's miles away from the Brighton first team squad 

Are you not even a little suspicious as to why he's ended up here a few days after Brighton signed a tie up with Hibs? You'd think Hibs would have been offered him first? 

Like Glass, Alan Russell isn't going to say the boy is shite either is he? 

Hope he's better at telling the truth about our signings than he was about why he really wanted to take the Aberdeen assistant job.  And that his judgment on players is better than his judgment on who should drive him home in his car when he's pished! 

[BonnieDon]

25 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

We don't need to make a huge profit on every single signing.  We need good players. 

Hedges arrived on a free, will likely leave on a free.  Same with Shinnie. McLean we made a small profit on. You're measuring everything on profit rather than contribution to the team. 

I've not been harsh on Jenks or Gurr. I've never seen them play and I'd guess neither have you.  Yet you proclaim they are great signings. I'm suggesting that anyone suggesting that these are great signings based on their playing record so far or anything that has been 'widely reported' are being speculative at best.  And to expect Glass to say that two of his signings are anything other than good ones is hardly earth shattering, he's not going to say we've signed shite is he? 

Let's just see them play before we start talking about how great they are. 

 

Another statement I never made. Just like I didn't, "proclaim they are great signings".

No we don't need to make a huge profit on ever signing we make which is why I'm fully behind the signings of Gallagher, JET, Brown and Soon Ramirez. 3 of whom I believe will improve our current side and I'll reframe from making a judgement on Ramirez until he's had time to acclimatise and featured several times.

"We need good players." - Daniel Mackay is a good player and is being touted as the next Ryan Christie. He's only just turned 20. If Cormack is prepared to sanction the signing of any player that would cost 300k plus, irrespective of his age, I'd fully expect them to be a good player who can contribute immediately to the first team. If we can source and secure promising young talent like Mackay, I'd prefer we signed them over a 25 year old McGrath. I believe that a player like Mackay could be as influential as McGrath for the first team.

 

 

[aberdeen1970]

6 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

Another statement I never made. Just like I didn't, "proclaim they are great signings".

No we don't need to make a huge profit on ever signing we make which is why I'm fully behind the signings of Gallagher, JET, Brown and Soon Ramirez. 3 of whom I believe will improve our current side and I'll reframe from making a judgement on Ramirez until he's had time to acclimatise and featured several times.

"We need good players." - Daniel Mackay is a good player and is being touted as the next Ryan Christie. He's only just turned 20. If Cormack is prepared to sanction the signing of any player that would cost 300k plus, irrespective of his age, I'd fully expect them to be a good player who can contribute immediately to the first team. If we can source and secure promising young talent like Mackay, I'd prefer we signed them over a 25 year old McGrath. I believe that a player like Mackay could be as influential as McGrath for the first team.

 

 

McKay has signed for Hibs. He's not available. 

[BonnieDon]

16 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

We'll find out soon enough and I hope you are right. 

But believing everything you read in the media is naive.  Most transfer speculation is complete shite.  If Championship clubs really wanted him on loan he'd have most likely ended up there rather than up here. I suspect he's miles away from the Brighton first team squad 

Are you not even a little suspicious as to why he's ended up here a few days after Brighton signed a tie up with Hibs? You'd think Hibs would have been offered him first? 

Like Glass, Alan Russell isn't going to say the boy is shite either is he? 

Hope he's better at telling the truth about our signings than he was about why he really wanted to take the Aberdeen assistant job.  And that his judgment on players is better than his judgment on who should drive him home in his car when he's pished! 

Likewise why would they sign him if he is shite?

For all we know Brighton might be after Ferguson and Jenks is part of the deal. Hibs already have Mallan, Allan, Murphy, Magennis and Newell. They are plenty covered in that position.

 

[SupportmeansSUPPORT]

2 hours ago, BonnieDon said:

 

Aside from Hayes we don't often sell players beyond the age of 25 for all that much. In fact the large number of players leave for nothing once their contract runs down. Kenny McLean only went for 500k. We've had more success in selling players for a profit around the age of 23 (McKenna, Wright, Cosgrove and soon Ferguson) after they've had a few years in the first team. Hence why I'd prefer we spent the quoted 500k St Mirren want for McGrath on a younger prospect such as Hibs did most recently with Mackay.

@Aberdeen1970 - JET and Gallagher were both signed as free transfers (unlike McGrath who would cost us a significant figure) and were never expected to be sold on for a profit due to their age. It is more of a gamble to sign a player in his mid 20's (especially for 500k) and hope that by the time he is 27/28 we can make a decent profit off him then signing a younger prospect like we did with Lewis Ferguson. Personally I don't feel the club can justify spending 500k on a single player at this moment in time but like you said, "It's up to the club to manage the finances, not us."

 

 

Hibs also spent 250k on Kevin Nisbet last season who is 24 the same age as Jamie McGrath and they were offered 10 times that for him within 6 months. If we spend 500k on McGrath and he does well we would not be waiting until he is 28 before selling him id be fairly certain we would be looking to sell him in a year to 18 months. The reason we didn't sell McLean or Shinnie for decent amounts was because we didn't do a good job of selling the player when they were under contract and also because English clubs were not keen to take players in from Scotland. That has now changed and they are more willing to look at the Scottish market now.

I'd rather pay 500k on a 24 year old like McGrath who has shown ability and proven he can play in our league for 18 months than pay 500k per year in wages to a 30year old American striker who in his entire career has only had 1 good season playing at the highest level in his country and that was 4 years ago.  

 

 

[Betty Swallicks]

48 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

Remember McInnes said that about James Wilson? 

McInnes LOL.

Bullshitting weegie beaut couldn't get a tune out of Maddison ffs.

[Don Fonte]

3 minutes ago, Betty Swallicks said:

McInnes LOL.

Bullshitting weegie beaut couldn't get a tune out of Maddison ffs.

That's better posting from you.

A terrific statement.

[aberdeen1970]

3 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

Likewise why would they sign him if he is shite?

For all we know Brighton might be after Ferguson and Jenks is part of the deal. Hibs already have Mallan, Allan, Murphy, Magennis and Newell. They are plenty covered in that position.

 

If you want to believe everything that Cormack, Glass and Russell tell you, that's fine. 

I hope they are successful but a bit of healthy scepticism never did anyone any harm.  There's a few things that don't quite add up so far so I'll keep an open mind. 

[aberdeen1970]

5 minutes ago, SupportmeansSUPPORT said:

Hibs also spent 250k on Kevin Nisbet last season who is 24 the same age as Jamie McGrath and they were offered 10 times that for him within 6 months. If we spend 500k on McGrath and he does well we would not be waiting until he is 28 before selling him id be fairly certain we would be looking to sell him in a year to 18 months. The reason we didn't sell McLean or Shinnie for decent amounts was because we didn't do a good job of selling the player when they were under contract and also because English clubs were not keen to take players in from Scotland. That has now changed and they are more willing to look at the Scottish market now.

I'd rather pay 500k on a 24 year old like McGrath who has shown ability and proven he can play in our league for 18 months than pay 500k per year in wages to a 30year old American striker who in his entire career has only had 1 good season playing at the highest level in his country and that was 4 years ago.  

 

 

Exactly. 

[BonnieDon]

Just now, aberdeen1970 said:

McKay has signed for Hibs. He's not available. 

I've already stated my knowledge of that in previous posts. The point I'm making is that if and when a player like Mackay is available I'd prefer we opted to sign them over a 25 year old such as McGrath as I believe they can be as influential and have a greater sell on value. 

When we signed Kenny McLean, he'd only just turned 24 and cost just slightly under £300,000. That was a good bit of business. However I'm not so sure about spending £500,000 for a 25 year (whose had one good season in the SPL) during the current climate. Just to clarify, I'd be happy if we signed McGrath as I think he's a good player, I just think that fee could be better spent.

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, BonnieDon said:

I've already stated my knowledge of that in previous posts. The point I'm making is that if and when a player like Mackay is available I'd prefer we opted to sign them over a 25 year old such as McGrath as I believe they can be as influential and have a greater sell on value. 

When we signed Kenny McLean, he'd only just turned 24 and cost just slightly under £300,000. That was a good bit of business. However I'm not so sure about spending £500,000 for a 25 year (whose had one good season in the SPL) during the current climate. Just to clarify, I'd be happy if we signed McGrath as I think he's a good player, I just think that fee could be better spent.

We're probably boring each other now as we're not going to agree. 

I don't think 500k is an outlandish fee for a good player of that age.

Someone else also gave you Nisbet as an example. 

They guy you want to spend the money on has just signed for Hibs. You need to sign players that are available. But you'd rather risk him moving somewhere else and take Teddy on loan for a year instead in the hope that someone will appear in 12 months time for us to sign who is younger and plays in the same position. 

I think that policy is nonsense. 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

8 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

If you want to believe everything that Cormack, Glass and Russell tell you, that's fine. 

I hope they are successful but a bit of healthy scepticism never did anyone any harm.  There's a few things that don't quite add up so far so I'll keep an open mind. 

I’ll wait & see how we shape up at the end of the transfer window, but as it stands, when Cormack & Glass were talking about our plans for the summer, I was expecting better than what’s happened so far. 

[SupportmeansSUPPORT]

45 minutes ago, BonnieDon said:

 

No we don't need to make a huge profit on ever signing we make which is why I'm fully behind the signings of Gallagher, JET, Brown and Soon Ramirez. 3 of whom I believe will improve our current side and I'll reframe from making a judgement on Ramirez until he's had time to acclimatise and featured several times.

"

 

What confuses me about the recruitment so far is that we were told that we are going to play fast attractive attacking football, on the front foot with a high press. To do that sort of football you need to have a lot of pace, energy and mobility in the team. But none of the players you mention above as signed so far fit in with that style of play.

I have not watched Jenks or Gurr so cant comment personally but I did ask someone who has seen Jenks play a fair bit and he talked of him as a technically decent player with a nice touch but he felt that he didn't have much pace and that might be an issue as he try to step up at senior level. Now I have never seen him so I don't know how true that assessment is but if it is true again it doesn't seem to fit with what we were told was the plan.

The Dundee Utd cup game when he tried to ask players who are not suited to playing in a certain style and formation is an example of what can happen if you havn't got the right players to suit playing the chosen system and style you want and so that is my concern. But I really hope your optimism is correct. It might be the case that he has decided to change from how he originally planned he would, and we are going to play a different way now and that's why he has gone for the players which he has chosen.

[Ten Caat]

I'm not even sure we would actually need to pay £500k for McGrath. St Mirren obviously have heard of interest in the player and want to maximise his value. But he is entering the final season of his contract there and the last thing St Mirren want is an unsettled player seeing out his contract and losing him for nothing at the end of it.

There's a deal to be done if we really do want him....I think we'd end up getting him for around £350k or so with a sell-on fee attached to the deal. However given out surfeit of midfielders, I don't see it happening unless we accept a bid for Ferguson in this window. And he may well be elsewhere if we are hoping to pinch him on the cheap in the January window.

[aberdeen1970]

8 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

I'm not even sure we would actually need to pay £500k for McGrath. St Mirren obviously have heard of interest in the player and want to maximise his value. But he is entering the final season of his contract there and the last thing St Mirren want is an unsettled player seeing out his contract and losing him for nothing at the end of it.

There's a deal to be done if we really do want him....I think we'd end up getting him for around £350k or so with a sell-on fee attached to the deal. However given out surfeit of midfielders, I don't see it happening unless we accept a bid for Ferguson in this window. And he may well be elsewhere if we are hoping to pinch him on the cheap in the January window.

I agree TC. 

I'm also assuming Ferguson is away one way or another. Its just a matter of time. 

McGrath is different from the rest of our midfielders in that he can play between the lines and take the ball on the turn so I don't think he is a duplication of the others who like to sit deeper and have the game in front of them.  I'd see him more as a replacement for Wright than Ferguson. Or a better option to Kennedy if you like. 

I'm not in love with McGrath per se but we shouldn't be baulking at buying decent players for a relatively small fee in their mid 20s if they can improve the team. 

Especially when we seem to be happy to pay top dollar in wages to guys in their 30s.

[Sheeptastic]

17 minutes ago, SupportmeansSUPPORT said:

 

What confuses me about the recruitment so far is that we were told that we are going to play fast attractive attacking football, on the front foot with a high press. To do that sort of football you need to have a lot of pace, energy and mobility in the team. But none of the players you mention above as signed so far fit in with that style of play.

I have not watched Jenks or Gurr so cant comment personally but I did ask someone who has seen Jenks play a fair bit and he talked of him as a technically decent player with a nice touch but he felt that he didn't have much pace and that might be an issue as he try to step up at senior level. Now I have never seen him so I don't know how true that assessment is but if it is true again it doesn't seem to fit with what we were told was the plan.

The Dundee Utd cup game when he tried to ask players who are not suited to playing in a certain style and formation is an example of what can happen if you havn't got the right players to suit playing the chosen system and style you want and so that is my concern. But I really hope your optimism is correct. It might be the case that he has decided to change from how he originally planned he would, and we are going to play a different way now and that's why he has gone for the players which he has chosen.

I have wondered this, although I don't know if Glass has actually outright said fast attacking football with a high press etc? He has certainly said he wants to attack, citing the Aberdeen teams always attack mantra. I have also felt stuff about the press has been been implied. 

Anyway there is no doubt the recruitment so far doesn't seem to exactly fit this style. I've not been blown away by the signings so far but they haven't been terrible. We really need some pace injected now as well as a goalscorer and good centre half. 

[GDON21]

Folk want 5 million for Ferguson and are the same folk not wiling to pay 500k for McGrath, hahaha. 

[G31DON]

Desperately need some pace in the team. Yet again. 

[Sonoftherock]

We need some goals from midfield, can't put all out eggs in the Ramirez basket... that's why McGrath is the play we should be going all out for.  If Ferguson goes, I feel like this is something we're going to need to do...

I see he got capped by Eire last month.  Won't come cheap.

[maryhilldon]

4 hours ago, GDON21 said:

Folk want 5 million for Ferguson 

What folk?  Nobody's been talking about that kind of figure for ages.  I think most reckon £3m would be a result.  He's a good player but he wasn't great last season and he wants to leave. 

[super_al]

I have to say this summer had been a total let down so far. Cormack was quoted in a RedTV interview as saying that JET would be one of a number of attacking options for next season. Thus far (yes there is still time) that statement is extremely far from reality.

[Sonoftherock]

10 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

What folk?  Nobody's been talking about that kind of figure for ages.  I think most reckon £3m would be a result.  He's a good player but he wasn't great last season and he wants to leave. 

Agree completely.

If we could shift him for about 3M... then re-invest 500k in McGrath, it would be good business.  That sort of money, we possibly don't have - the Ferguson transfer fee will probably got toward covering our COVID losses.  However, I just feel on his current trajectory he has massive sell on potential too and is worth taking a gamble.  Totally hypothetical, but if we did get him and he scores another 15 goals for us next season, I doubt he'd see out a second season.  McGrath will already be on the radar of clubs down south - I'm not sure whether he's already out of our reach?

[Don_Corleone]

4 hours ago, Sonoftherock said:

Agree completely.

If we could shift him for about 3M... then re-invest 500k in McGrath, it would be good business.  That sort of money, we possibly don't have - the Ferguson transfer fee will probably got toward covering our COVID losses.  However, I just feel on his current trajectory he has massive sell on potential too and is worth taking a gamble.  Totally hypothetical, but if we did get him and he scores another 15 goals for us next season, I doubt he'd see out a second season.  McGrath will already be on the radar of clubs down south - I'm not sure whether he's already out of our reach?

If McGrath is in the final year of his contract it may not take £500k - an offer off half that plus someone like Kennedy or McLennan might do the job, and has the added benefit of getting rid of another useless player from the squad.

I could see McGrath being a winter window signing though to be honest. Problem is if he starts the season well Celtic will come in for him then it’s game over. We’ll get him in 2 years time after he’s spent a couple seasons sitting on their bench.