Welcome back Stephen Glass

[beef_sister]

7 hours ago, Big Hat Logan said:

I think it’s fair to say that the stagnation appears to have been quite widespread. I think McInnes quite clearly lost his passion the last few seasons he was here. Probably fed up with the old firm stranglehold.

He had opportunities to leave, So if he was that fed up why didn't he take any of the offers he had on the table?

I think his methods were that mundane the players lost interest and that followed onto the performances on the pitch. 

[Big Hat Logan]

4 hours ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

I'll agree with the first two sentences.

You don’t think the Scottish football glass ceiling had anything to do with it?

4 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

Pity he wasn't so fed up that he didn't refuse our last contract then. Although why would he when he was raking it in for essentially being a part time manager

Milne has a lot to answer for

You’ve answered your own question there, penfold.

13 minutes ago, beef_sister said:

He had opportunities to leave, So if he was that fed up why didn't he take any of the offers he had on the table?

I think his methods were that mundane the players lost interest and that followed onto the performances on the pitch. 

Because sometimes people like to play the safe option. Why risk going elsewhere when you can get a nice contract where you are without knocking your pan in?

[strachanmcgheegoal]

2 hours ago, Big Hat Logan said:

You don’t think the Scottish football glass ceiling had anything to do with it?

Not sure “fed up” was the right term.  Unmoveably irretrievably accepting might have been another way of putting it.  Dismissive of any “other way” could be another.

[Granite95]

18 hours ago, StandFree1982 said:

McInnis went from being an exciting young manager to a dinosaur of the game pretty quickly. 

But he's the greastest manager since Fergie if you believe some fans and half the media.....

[Studebaker-90]

23 hours ago, Granite95 said:

But he's the greastest manager since Fergie if you believe some fans and half the media.....

Who was better? He’s certainly the best afc manager that I’ve seen. 

[NEM]

36 minutes ago, Studebaker-90 said:

Who was better? He’s certainly the best afc manager that I’ve seen. 

Alex Smith/Jocky Scott

 

Willie Millers 1993 side would have also wiped the floor with any McInnes team 

[jamiesd]

38 minutes ago, Studebaker-90 said:

Who was better? He’s certainly the best afc manager that I’ve seen. 

?

[Don_Corleone]

McInnes outstayed his welcome - he got stale and everything else went stale with him. He no longer had any ambition to improve, no longer felt he could improve, and therefore no longer tried to improve - it was just a case of muddling along, accepting 3rd or 4th place, accepting defeats to the Glasgow teams, accepting going out early in Europe, accepting that we just weren't good enough to win trophies regularly, accepting boring football if it scraped together enough points to achieve the above. McInnes was willing to accept what the fans weren't willing to accept. He also put that mentality into the players, so there became a disconnect between fans and management / players certainly for his final couple of seasons, maybe even slightly more. 

[alscotoz]

What about Glass?

[thurso]

1 hour ago, Studebaker-90 said:

Who was better? He’s certainly the best afc manager that I’ve seen. 

I’m affraid he’s the best manager a lot of fans have seen but that’s an age thing. 
Aberdeen fans also have a tendency of turning on managers to get them sacked 

[ericblack4boss]

Willie miller had Shearer, paatelainen, booth, Jess, van Der Ark, mason, any one of them had more goal threat that Hun DMC last two seasons.

Fuck me even the fringe players Cameron, Gibson and Thomson were better than his last recruitment exercise

[NEM]

14 minutes ago, ericblack4boss said:

Willie miller had Shearer, paatelainen, booth, Jess, van Der Ark, mason, any one of them had more goal threat that Hun DMC last two seasons.

Fuck me even the fringe players Cameron, Gibson and Thomson were better than his last recruitment exercise

84 goals between them one season ?

[ericblack4boss]

30 minutes ago, NEM said:

84 goals between them one season ?

Add in Mason and Bett

[Betty Swallicks]

1 hour ago, thurso said:

I’m affraid he’s the best manager a lot of fans have seen but that’s an age thing. 
Aberdeen fans also have a tendency of turning on managers to get them sacked 

As do all clubs and rightly so. Its a pity some fans didn't turn on a few a bit fucking quicker imo. 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

2 hours ago, Don_Corleone said:

McInnes outstayed his welcome - he got stale and everything else went stale with him. He no longer had any ambition to improve, no longer felt he could improve, and therefore no longer tried to improve - it was just a case of muddling along, accepting 3rd or 4th place, accepting defeats to the Glasgow teams, accepting going out early in Europe, accepting that we just weren't good enough to win trophies regularly, accepting boring football if it scraped together enough points to achieve the above. McInnes was willing to accept what the fans weren't willing to accept. He also put that mentality into the players, so there became a disconnect between fans and management / players certainly for his final couple of seasons, maybe even slightly more. 

Agree no point dwelling on it but that last bit is valid and worth repeating.

 McInnes was willing to accept what the fans weren't willing to accept.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

2 hours ago, NEM said:

Alex Smith/Jocky Scott

 

Willie Millers 1993 side would have also wiped the floor with any McInnes team 

Aye so Miller inherited a brilliant team then made them shite is what you are saying.

McInnes inherited a team that had finished 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th. Qualified for Europe every single season and had to build a new team. 

McInnes is easily the best manager since Ferguson, but it doesn't say much. McInnes made us better, those guys inherited very good teams and contributed to the beginning of the downward spiral.

[NEM]

Just now, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Aye so Miller inherited a brilliant team then made them shite is what you are saying.

McInnes inherited a team that had finished 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th. Qualified for Europe every single season and had to build a new team. 

McInnes is easily the best manager since Ferguson, but it doesn't say much. McInnes made us better, those guys inherited very good teams and contributed to the beginning of the downward spiral.

Aye right enough Derek the likes of Shearer, Richardson and Paatelainen were shite signings.

Smith and Scott won 2 trophies and took us to the final day of the season in the league so that statement in bold is utter shite

[dazzy_deff]

10 minutes ago, NEM said:

Aye right enough Derek the likes of Shearer, Richardson and Paatelainen were shite signings.

Smith and Scott won 2 trophies and took us to the final day of the season in the league so that statement in bold is utter shite

Willie Miller was excellent his first 2 or 3 years. Turned us shite and was sacked. 

McInnes was excellent his first 4 or 5 years. Turned us to shite and was sacked. 

Alex Smith/Jocky Scott were excellent. Smith unfairly sacked as we werent shite. 

Millers side played the best fitba, Smith/Scott won most trophies and almost won us the league. 

McInnes was solid. Certainly not the best since Fergie. 

[ericblack4boss]

12 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Aye so Miller inherited a brilliant team then made them shite is what you are saying.

McInnes inherited a team that had finished 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th. Qualified for Europe every single season and had to build a new team. 

McInnes is easily the best manager since Ferguson, but it doesn't say much. McInnes made us better, those guys inherited very good teams and contributed to the beginning of the downward spiral.

Smith and Scott won two trophies in 9 months, ffs, and took us within 2 pts of title ( yes we can argue about the team and tactics that final day)

But smith and Scott had a team of players who didn't accept 3rd was thier place, or lie down to the old firm.

Hun DMC was a lucky manager landed the right job at the right time in Scottish football

[thurso]

28 minutes ago, NEM said:

Aye right enough Derek the likes of Shearer, Richardson and Paatelainen were shite signings.

Smith and Scott won 2 trophies and took us to the final day of the season in the league so that statement in bold is utter shite

I’m not sure you can compare the two. The gulf in money between rangers and us in 89-90 was no where near as much as it was when mccinnes was here 

[StandFree1982]

14 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Aye so Miller inherited a brilliant team then made them shite is what you are saying.

McInnes inherited a team that had finished 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th. Qualified for Europe every single season and had to build a new team. 

McInnes is easily the best manager since Ferguson, but it doesn't say much. McInnes made us better, those guys inherited very good teams and contributed to the beginning of the downward spiral.

He also inherited a side that included:

• Johnny Hayes
• Nail McGinn
• Peter Pawlett
• Russell Anderson
• Mark Reynolds
• Scott Vernon

5 or 6 of those (Peak Pawlett would. but he'd likely just be injured) of those would walk into our starting 11 this season (Hayes and McGinn being better versions of the Hayes and McGinn we have now, which is credit to Brown.

McInnes recruited well by bringing in Robson, Flood, Rooney and Logan to supplement those. But also brought in Wylde, Tate, and Zola...so swings and roundabouts!

I actually think he left Glass in a worse situation than he had when he joined, having to regroup after the shit he left., with NO strikers and ONE CB, Kennedy and an Ojo who was looking to quit football, that's how bad it got.  

 

[StandFree1982]

3 minutes ago, thurso said:

I’m not sure you can compare the two. The gulf in money between rangers and us in 89-90 was no where near as much as it was when mccinnes was here 

We spent a LOT more money back then to compete though. Think it might be the Summer thread where someone put up the money Aitken spent alone. Then you look at Shearer and Mixu etc, we spent a shit load of money on players back in those days and seen very little return. 

[Bournemouth Gee]

Was it Miller that bought Paul Bernard for a million?? Can't remember bit of a haze

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

54 minutes ago, NEM said:

Aye right enough Derek the likes of Shearer, Richardson and Paatelainen were shite signings.

Smith and Scott won 2 trophies and took us to the final day of the season in the league so that statement in bold is utter shite

I think I'll give you Smith. Although he did inherit an excellent team with nowhere near the financial differences as today. Dons were still competing then, nobody had any clue what was round the corner!

Willie Miller, no chance. Took us from title contenders to a relegation battle and has never been a manager ever again. Good een

22 minutes ago, StandFree1982 said:

He also inherited a side that included:

• Johnny Hayes
• Nail McGinn
• Peter Pawlett
• Russell Anderson
• Mark Reynolds
• Scott Vernon

5 or 6 of those (Peak Pawlett would. but he'd likely just be injured) of those would walk into our starting 11 this season (Hayes and McGinn being better versions of the Hayes and McGinn we have now, which is credit to Brown.

McInnes recruited well by bringing in Robson, Flood, Rooney and Logan to supplement those. But also brought in Wylde, Tate, and Zola...so swings and roundabouts!

I actually think he left Glass in a worse situation than he had when he joined, having to regroup after the shit he left., with NO strikers and ONE CB, Kennedy and an Ojo who was looking to quit football, that's how bad it got.  

 

9th, 9th, 9th, 8th. 4 seasons. It cant be denied. What had the above players achieved before McInnes came in? Apart from Anderson they had all under performed. 

McInnes replaced Vernon with Rooney and Pawlett with McLean and made us stronger.

Glass inherited a team that finished 4th and is getting a decent backing. He was left with no strikers which is better than being left with contracted ones who are pish which is usually the case after a manager is sacked!

[WesthillWanderersFC]

3 minutes ago, Bournemouth Gee said:

Was it Miller that bought Paul Bernard for a million?? Can't remember bit of a haze

Aitken

[aberdeen1970]

Smith and Scott were better than McInnes, absolutely no question in my mind.  Won two trophies, made some great signings, brought through good young players and played better stuff. 

Willie Miller started great but then tried to dismantle and reassemble his team too quickly. McInnes probably shades him for consistency over a long period of time but Willie's 92/3 team would have pumped McInnes' team and were a joy to watch. 

[Ten Caat]

34 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

I think I'll give you Smith. Although he did inherit an excellent team with nowhere near the financial differences as today. Dons were still competing then, nobody had any clue what was round the corner!

Willie Miller, no chance. Took us from title contenders to a relegation battle and has never been a manager ever again. Good een

Can't agree with you that Smith inherited an excellent team.

Porterfield inherited a declining Fergie team and by the time he left and signed some utter trash in a short space of time (Gary Hackett, Tom Jones, Keith Edwards etc). Thankfully those players were extremely short lived ( all gone by summer 88 at the latest) but Smith inherited a squad that had been nothing more than "functional", although it's fair to say were were robbed in the 87 League Cup final. He also had to contend with just having lost Leighton. 

Miller then inherited Smith's squad. They were having a poor season but Smith had surely earned the chance to turn things round.....the board decided to bullet him though. It was still the bones of a very good side and Miller instantly made it even better, sadly for one full season only. They were still pretty good in his second season but Miller was a winner and wasn't happy finishing as runner-up to oldco so tried a total rebuild in his 3rd season which sadly proved disastrous. 

As said above....Willie's 92/3 side would have taken any of McInnes' sides apart. His 93/4 side would have beaten any of them. 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

38 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Can't agree with you that Smith inherited an excellent team.

Porterfield inherited a declining Fergie team and by the time he left and signed some utter trash in a short space of time (Gary Hackett, Tom Jones, Keith Edwards etc). Thankfully those players were extremely short lived ( all gone by summer 88 at the latest) but Smith inherited a squad that had been nothing more than "functional", although it's fair to say were were robbed in the 87 League Cup final. He also had to contend with just having lost Leighton. 

Miller then inherited Smith's squad. They were having a poor season but Smith had surely earned the chance to turn things round.....the board decided to bullet him though. It was still the bones of a very good side and Miller instantly made it even better, sadly for one full season only. They were still pretty good in his second season but Miller was a winner and wasn't happy finishing as runner-up to oldco so tried a total rebuild in his 3rd season which sadly proved disastrous. 

As said above....Willie's 92/3 side would have taken any of McInnes' sides apart. His 93/4 side would have beaten any of them. 

I concede defeat on Alex Smith. Have to admit, I dont even remember his time so was doing a bit of guess work there.

There's no question Millers best team would give McInnes' a doing but we aren't talking about the teams, we are talking about the managers. So a lot of things become relative. The team they inherited, the players they signed, the strength of the league, money available to them and opponents, the expectation at the time, how long they kept things going. McInnes took over pish in 2013 and had us getting better and better until 2017. Decline started, although we were still pretty decent 17/18. Hard thing at Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs/Utd level is if you build a good team, they'll all fuck off elsewhere. Thats why need to get better at selling players, so we have the bucks to replace them.

Sometimes just think McInnes should get a bit more respect on here, but he stayed a bit too long and damaged reputation.

[Betty Swallicks]

McInnes had a half decent squad when he arrived.

Took the club forward (in a weakened league) for roughly 4 seasons.

Won a League Cup, took us into Europe each season (where he failed to deliver).

Regressed the club 2, possibly 3 seasons.

Hung about taking a huge wage.

Left a poorer squad than he inherited. 

 

Its all rather good mixed with bad but its the hanging about has fucked it for him. 

[afc1903mad]

15 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Sometimes just think McInnes should get a bit more respect on here, but he stayed a bit too long and damaged reputation.

McInnes had my backing, right up to about 6 months to go.

It was a bit wobbly at the start of his last season, but with Watkins, Wright and Hedges, we were starting to play some good attractive football. When the injuries came, it was clear that he didn't really have an alternative plan and the game became long and loose.

It was clear from that January window that he had given up, maybe he sensed his time was coming to an end with the discussions on available funds to spend / not spend, but can hardly be a surprise for him that his time was up.