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Calvin Ramsay


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2 hours ago, muttonhumper said:

It was money I recall we would have more than recouped if we actually kept him that next season.

Given:

We shipped 20 more goals in the league the season he was gone

Hemorrhaged 4 in that catastrophic LC semi final at Tynecastle v Dundee Utd

Let another 4 past us in the Scottish Cup semi-final v Queen of the fucking South

Failed to qualify for Europe

 

The first factor is the most telling, but even if we had bettered any one of the other three, we'd have made more than the 3/4 million or whatever it was we actually received.

So losing him for 1 season for that amount of dosh given the effect it had on our defence was very much a shite deal for us.

As I said at the time, though you're not likely to recall my opinion on the matter from 15 odd years ago... ?

 

You know what, I’ve never thought about that before. 
 

and my life was more enjoyable before I did. 
 

there is not a chance those semi finals would have gone like that with Anderson playing. That was a Scottish cup that was definitely there for the taking as well. 
 

im sure he would have enjoyed the European run more than 1 appearance for Sunderland as well. 1 more season and lose him on a bosman could have been prolific. 
 

fuck you for this thought process muttonhumper. It’s horrible and it’s accurate 

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On 5/11/2022 at 8:34 AM, sooth_stander said:

It makes me laugh how just cos your at a perceived bigger club, like the cheeks, your transfer value is automatically increased, even if you’ve played less games and even if your a lesser talent.

Anyone explain that one to be?

I tried to explain the concept of arbitrage on here a while ago, but everyone's an idiot, so it wasn't a success.

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Alexander Arnold is basically an older version of Ramsay. Can see why Liverpool want him. Decent going forward & great delivery/assists but defensively the weaker side of his game. Just shows how decent team with decent CH’s can cover this & allow the FB’s to be a lot more creative like wing backs

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Just now, fine-n-dandy said:

If he goes to Liverpool then a sell on clause is pretty much next to useless, so we need to maximise the sale to Liverpool in upfront & other clauses.

if he bombs there they sell him for a meagre amount or release him & if he doesn’t bomb they keep him. 


That’s not the case with Neco Williams who Ramsay would replace. He got fed up being a bit part player and is currently out on loan and will be sold in the summer for a reported 10 million plus so a sell on is not useless

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2 hours ago, Hoofball said:


That’s not the case with Neco Williams who Ramsay would replace. He got fed up being a bit part player and is currently out on loan and will be sold in the summer for a reported 10 million plus so a sell on is not useless

So if we got £3m from Leeds (for example)  & he’s a success he gets sold for a lot more than he would for bombing at Liverpool.

my point is that better chance of bigger sell on value if he doesn’t got straight to a top club. 

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8 hours ago, fine-n-dandy said:

If he goes to Liverpool then a sell on clause is pretty much next to useless, so we need to maximise the sale to Liverpool in upfront & other clauses.

if he bombs there they sell him for a meagre amount or release him & if he doesn’t bomb they keep him. 

For once you’ve talked sense. The fee should all be upfront in my opinion 

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14 minutes ago, thurso said:

For once you’ve talked sense. The fee should all be upfront in my opinion 

I dont mind their being add ons to deal providing the upfront fee is at a decent level. Papers said it was 3m a few weeks ago now saying around 4m. hopefully its at very least over 5m by time its actually announced. The add ons have to be achievable though. 1m for 30 starts at Liverpool, 1m for 20 international caps, 1m for champions league win, 1m for EPL win etc. Know exactly what your saying about sell on but its going to be tough for him to turn down Liverpool its better having the clause than not just incase but hypothetically if it was the difference between another 2m upfront or 20% sell on id probably take the 2m now. 

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2 minutes ago, slippers said:

I dont mind their being add ons to deal providing the upfront fee is at a decent level. Papers said it was 3m a few weeks ago now saying around 4m. hopefully its at very least over 5m by time its actually announced. The add ons have to be achievable though. 1m for 30 starts at Liverpool, 1m for 20 international caps, 1m for champions league win, 1m for EPL win etc. Know exactly what your saying about sell on but its going to be tough for him to turn down Liverpool its better having the clause than not just incase but hypothetically if it was the difference between another 2m upfront or 20% sell on id probably take the 2m now. 

I agree with what your saying but for me even £5 million up front is to low but it should be performance add ons not sell on % 

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7 hours ago, fine-n-dandy said:

So if we got £3m from Leeds (for example)  & he’s a success he gets sold for a lot more than he would for bombing at Liverpool.

my point is that better chance of bigger sell on value if he doesn’t got straight to a top club. 


But if he bombs at Leeds you still get fuck all.

You can’t demand a player doesn’t join a top club just because the selling club may make more money in the future from a sell on

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56 minutes ago, thurso said:

I agree with what your saying but for me even £5 million up front is to low but it should be performance add ons not sell on % 


A 21 year old Welsh international with over 10 caps, EPL and champions league experience is valued at 10-12 million so what do you value Ramsay at

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1 hour ago, Hoofball said:


A 21 year old Welsh international with over 10 caps, EPL and champions league experience is valued at 10-12 million so what do you value Ramsay at

£10 million.
Not sure what having champions league experience has to do with it Jay Emmanuel Thomas had that did he not 

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17 minutes ago, thurso said:

£10 million.
Not sure what having champions league experience has to do with it Jay Emmanuel Thomas had that did he not 


So you expect Liverpool to sell an international player with more experience not only in the EPL but also champions league and sign Ramsay for the same price who has no international caps, EPL or champion league experience. Good luck with that.

What has JET got to do with anything 

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29 minutes ago, Hoofball said:


So you expect Liverpool to sell an international player with more experience not only in the EPL but also champions league and sign Ramsay for the same price who has no international caps, EPL or champion league experience. Good luck with that.

What has JET got to do with anything 

Hes just turned 18. Obviously someone 3 years older will have more accolades. We are selling him on potential to Liverpool who obviously feel he has a higher ceiling than the welsh guy. Should definitely be looking at more than 4m upfront thats for sure!

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12 minutes ago, slippers said:

Hes just turned 18. Obviously someone 3 years older will have more accolades. We are selling him on potential to Liverpool who obviously feel he has a higher ceiling than the welsh guy. Should definitely be looking at more than 4m upfront thats for sure!

Do they?

The Welsh loon wants away to play regularly. He's already set up for life financially so can afford to take his chances on a regular starting place elsewhere. With 10 full caps to his name, he shouldn't find it that hard to do so.

Liverpool...or any team interested for that matter.....would be taking a complete punt on Ramsay. He may well prove in future to have a very high ceiling but right now, as you correctly say, he is pure potential. And it can't be disputed that right now he does have some major defensive frailties. Now that probably won't put them off because TA-A is in exactly the same boat but they can live with it because of his attacking upside.

Sadly we are a provincial side though. If Ramsay had been at one of the arse cheeks they'd probably get double what we can expect to get. Even if he had been an English prospect in EFL1 he'd probably go for a bit more than we will get. Sadly that's reality. Achieveable add-ons are the best hope we have of squeezing more value out him. 

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58 minutes ago, Hoofball said:


So you expect Liverpool to sell an international player with more experience not only in the EPL but also champions league and sign Ramsay for the same price who has no international caps, EPL or champion league experience. Good luck with that.

What has JET got to do with anything 

I don’t think it matters what experience he has it’s how good he is.
 

Jet played in the champions league 

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27 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Do they?

The Welsh loon wants away to play regularly. He's already set up for life financially so can afford to take his chances on a regular starting place elsewhere. With 10 full caps to his name, he shouldn't find it that hard to do so.

Liverpool...or any team interested for that matter.....would be taking a complete punt on Ramsay. He may well prove in future to have a very high ceiling but right now, as you correctly say, he is pure potential. And it can't be disputed that right now he does have some major defensive frailties. Now that probably won't put them off because TA-A is in exactly the same boat but they can live with it because of his attacking upside.

Sadly we are a provincial side though. If Ramsay had been at one of the arse cheeks they'd probably get double what we can expect to get. Even if he had been an English prospect in EFL1 he'd probably go for a bit more than we will get. Sadly that's reality. Achieveable add-ons are the best hope we have of squeezing more value out him. 

Spot on

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