Scotland vs Denmark, Moldova & Austria

[aberdeen1970]

19 minutes ago, SupportmeansSUPPORT said:

Well the good news for those who didn't like Patterson is that he is injured and out of the squad for the Austria game and now replaced by Paul McGinn from Hibs.

Ryan Fraser and Kenny McLean are both also out the squad with injury. 

Some folk will be pleased as McGinn is more experienced and has played regularly for Hibs this season. 

Be careful what you wish for folks 

[afc1903mad]

25 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

I was talking about the squad. 

But outside that, you'd rather pick Ralston because he's more experienced than Patterson even though he's clearly a far inferior player? 

I assume then that you were against Gilmour playing against England at the Euros? 

i think players should be playing for their clubs in order to be selected for the national team.

Players like Gilmour (seeing as you selected him) need to move on and get games (as he is at Norwich) rather than be a bench warmer.

We've had years and years of selecting players by reputation or club they're at rather than form. Look where its gotten us.

[afc1903mad]

22 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Some folk will be pleased as McGinn is more experienced and has played regularly for Hibs this season. 

Be careful what you wish for folks 

?

I've nothing against Patterson if he's a good right back and is playing regularly. He's just not shown it this year (so far) in my opinion.

[Ten Caat]

38 minutes ago, afc1903mad said:

Ahh, selecting only those in the squad. That’s a problem.

Keeping the red tinted specs off, surely Tony Ralston was more deserving than Patterson going by form this year.

played for the Scotland U19’s, U20’s and U21’s as well, so is known to the setup

Ralston? Fuck off with that. Ramsay is already better than him and has been all season.

The only reason Ralston gets a mention is because Celtic were forced into playing him having no one else and he's done ok........nothing more. Of course the weegia were talking up his claims to a place in the squad but only because they wanted a counter-argument to selecting Patterson to fill their column inches and they barely know Ramsay exists. And now Celtic have bought the guy (some random Croatian) who will usurp Ralston from their first choice eleven anyway.

[aberdeen1970]

2 minutes ago, afc1903mad said:

i think players should be playing for their clubs in order to be selected for the national team.

Players like Gilmour (seeing as you selected him) need to move on and get games (as he is at Norwich) rather than be a bench warmer.

We've had years and years of selecting players by reputation or club their at rather than form. Look where its gotten us.

So you wouldn't have played Gilmour against England then as he wasn't playing for Chelsea. 

And you'd have played Anthony Ralston against Denmark, Moldova and Austria even though Celtic have been desperately trying to get a replacement right back all summer due to Ralston being sub standard even at Scottish domestic level. 

This argument is full of holes min. 

[aberdeen1970]

7 minutes ago, afc1903mad said:

?

I've nothing against Patterson if he's a good right back and is playing regularly. He's just not shown it this year (so far) in my opinion.

I agree with you in principle if 2 players are equal in ability.  The one playing regularly should get the nod.  But there are exceptions to avoid cutting your nose off to spite your face. 

Do you leave out a player who is on the bench at say Chelsea to pick someone who is playing regularly for Sheffield Wednesday when the Chelsea player is far superior? 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

53 minutes ago, SupportmeansSUPPORT said:

Well the good news for those who didn't like Patterson is that he is injured and out of the squad for the Austria game and now replaced by Paul McGinn from Hibs.

I think this sums up the reason it was ok for Patterson to play at the weekend

[afc1903mad]

Just now, Ten Caat said:

Ralston? Fuck off with that. Ramsay is already better than him and has been all season.

The only reason Ralston gets a mention is because Celtic were forced into playing him having no one else and he's done ok........nothing more. Of course the weegia were talking up his claims to a place in the squad but only because they wanted a counter-argument to selecting Patterson to fill their column inches and they barely know Ramsay exists. And now Celtic have bought the guy (some random Croatian) who will usurp Ralston from their first choice eleven anyway.

I agree. I only picked someone who was not a Don (red tint specs off) and had better form this year than Patterson.

Ramsay has no doubt been phenomenal this season. A real standout.

If anything, he should have been promoted up, but there seems to be a caution / want to save face with the SFA after saying Ramsay needed to work the levels first

[afc1903mad]

2 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

I think this sums up the reason it was ok for Patterson to play at the weekend

 

1 minute ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Fucking nails that argument to the wall. 

Not really, They shoulda been brave enough to call up the in-form Scottish Right Back

[aberdeen1970]

Just now, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

I think this sums up the reason it was ok for Patterson to play at the weekend

Fucking nails that argument to the wall. 

[afc1903mad]

4 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

I agree with you in principle if 2 players are equal in ability.  The one playing regularly should get the nod.  But there are exceptions to avoid cutting your nose off to spite your face. 

Do you leave out a player who is on the bench at say Chelsea to pick someone who is playing regularly for Sheffield Wednesday when the Chelsea player is far superior? 

It used to be a case that a player had to move and play to get international call if not good enough for the club team.

Its part of the mentality that has meant Scotland have been shit for years.

We have to play players who are playing and are on form. Reputation is a cowards way.

 

Sure you focus on Gilmour who appears to be the exceptional exception to the rule, but how many other players have pulled on the Scottish shirt without warranting a place?

Given the fact that Patterson was isolating and even now is injured, how do you justify not selecting Ramsay who is on form?

[aberdeen1970]

4 minutes ago, afc1903mad said:

 

Not really, They shoulda been brave enough to call up the in-form Scottish Right Back

  I have absolutely no doubt that Ramsay will get called up of he continues his good form.  Clarke has called up every young player who has done well.  And he's done it much more quickly and shown greater faith in young players than his predecessor did. 

Millertime explained why Patterson is ahead of Ramsay currently but you dismissed it because you think he's a Hun. 

Patterson has a full season on Ramsay. 

There's no Hun conspiracy with this one.  It's a combination of loyalty to O'Donnell and Patterson being a year ahead of Ramsay who had just broken through. Might also have been a concern about Ramsay having played too many games in quick succession at such a young age. 

 

 

[aberdeen1970]

2 minutes ago, afc1903mad said:

It used to be a case that a player had to move and play to get international call if not good enough for the club team.

Its part of the mentality that has meant Scotland have been shit for years.

We have to play players who are playing and are on form. Reputation is a cowards way.

 

Sure you focus on Gilmour who appears to be the exceptional exception to the rule, but how many other players have pulled on the Scottish shirt without warranting a place?

Given the fact that Patterson was isolating and even now is injured, how do you justify not selecting Ramsay who is on form?

You've got the reasons for failure wrong. 

We didn't do well because we selected lower league English journeymen time and time again rather than have faith in talented youth who would have had a higher ceiling, and probably been more committed, than the afore mentioned English journeymen with Scottish grannies. 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

After watching him get terrorised at right back against Qarabag, I'm probably ok with Ramsay not playing directly against David Alaba for the time being.

His time will come though.

SOD will play against Austria and hopefully Ramsay will get some experience with the under 21s

[afc1903mad]

Just now, aberdeen1970 said:

  I have absolutely no doubt that Ramsay will get called up of he continues his good form.  Clarke has called up every young player who has done well.  And he's done it much more quickly and shown greater faith in young players than his predecessor did. 

Millertime explained why Patterson is ahead of Ramsay currently but you dismissed it because you think he's a Hun. 

Patterson has a full season on Ramsay. 

There's no Hun conspiracy with this one.  It's a combination of loyalty to O'Donnell and Patterson being a year ahead of Ramsay who had just broken through. Might also have been a concern about Ramsay having played too many games in quick succession at such a young age. 

 

 

Not at all.

Patterson had 872 first team minutes last year and 180 minutes this year (90 minutes against Championship Dunfermline and 90 minutes in Europe as Tavernier was isolating). Total 1042 minutes

Ramsay had 243 minutes last season and 782 minutes this season. Total 1025 minutes.

Their first team minutes are very similar 

 

They are both emerging right backs and as I said to MT, form wise, this season, Ramsay is ahead of Patterson.

Its a sad indication that a back up RB, hardly playing is now seen as our no 1 RB for the national squad.

He was poor on Saturday, no doubt because of his lack of game time.

[afc1903mad]

9 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

After watching him get terrorised at right back against Qarabag, I'm probably ok with Ramsay not playing directly against David Alaba for the time being.

His time will come though.

SOD will play against Austria and hopefully Ramsay will get some experience with the under 21s

Ramsay did very well against Qarabag. They played inverted wingers and Ramsay for the most part kept forcing their no 10 down the line.

I do get the "going with experience" for this upcoming game, but the message for Patterson does need to be that he plays for rangers or gets a move to get regular games if he wants to progress with the International team. 

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, afc1903mad said:

Not at all.

Patterson had 872 first team minutes last year and 180 minutes this year (90 minutes against Championship Dunfermline and 90 minutes in Europe as Tavernier was isolating). Total 1042 minutes

Ramsay had 243 minutes last season and 782 minutes this season. Total 1025 minutes.

Their first team minutes are very similar 

 

They are both emerging right backs and as I said to MT, form wise, this season, Ramsay is ahead of Patterson.

Its a sad indication that a back up RB, hardly playing is now seen as our no 1 RB for the national squad.

He was poor on Saturday, no doubt because of his lack of game time.

Ramsay has just broken through at Aberdeen and has had a really hectic schedule for such a young loon in the last month 

Patterson was in the squad last season and at the Euros. 

It's perfectly understandable why Clarke picked him ahead of Ramsay this time around.   

Might be an argument to be had later in the campaign if Ramsay continued to impress and Patterson continues to be left out at the Huns. 

 

[afc1903mad]

1 minute ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Ramsay has just broken through at Aberdeen and has had a really hectic schedule for such a young loon in the last month 

Patterson was in the squad last season and at the Euros. 

It's perfectly understandable why Clarke picked him ahead of Ramsay this time around.   

Might be an argument to be had later in the campaign if Ramsay continued to impress and Patterson continues to be left out at the Huns. 

 

Agreed, It will be interesting to see how this plays out 

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, afc1903mad said:

Agreed, It will be interesting to see how this plays out 

I think it ends up with them both being in the squad. Maybe within the next 12 months or so. 

[Ten Caat]

Ramsay was supposed to be with the U19s

He's been promoted to the U21s after call offs and from now on won't be left out of their squads (he might still drop down to represent the U19s occasionally if the fixtures don't clash). 12  to 18 months of U21 international football is absolutely fine for his development at this stage.

Clarke has been loyal to O'Donnell and will stick with him whilst we still have an interest in the World Cup. I'm sure once our interest ends, either by not qualifying or if we somehow do, once we've been knocked out in Qatar, O'Donnell will be thanked for his service and at that point Ramsay then comes into the equation alongside Patterson who will more than likely be the established first choice right back by then. It's up to Ramsay to make Clarke's life difficult selection wise from then on.

[NEM]

50 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

  I have absolutely no doubt that Ramsay will get called up of he continues his good form.  Clarke has called up every young player who has done well.  And he's done it much more quickly and shown greater faith in young players than his predecessor did. 

Millertime explained why Patterson is ahead of Ramsay currently but you dismissed it because you think he's a Hun. 

Patterson has a full season on Ramsay. 

There's no Hun conspiracy with this one.  It's a combination of loyalty to O'Donnell and Patterson being a year ahead of Ramsay who had just broken through. Might also have been a concern about Ramsay having played too many games in quick succession at such a young age. 

 

 

A full season? According to Wikipedia he’s played 7 games for the huns ?

 

For the record I don’t think a boy who turned 18 a few weeks ago should be playing for the full international team. Shows how utter shite we are that it’s even being talked about 

[thurso]

42 minutes ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

Again, he's the reason we scored. 
 

You sound like an obsessed div.

 

The reason we scored is because the keeper palmed out a scuffed shot right to dykes. 
 

As much as I think ralston is shit his form is better because he’s actually playing. Patterson will soon have more games for Scotland then rangers surely for his development he should be in the under21s to guarantee game time 

But then again only in Scotland could you have the best Scottish player in a position not selected for a squad because he’s to young so has to play through the age groups. 
 

Patterson’s out so they call up the McGinn boy who’s no where near as good as ramsay this season either 

[aberdeen1970]

4 minutes ago, thurso said:

The reason we scored is because the keeper palmed out a scuffed shot right to dykes. 
 

As much as I think ralston is shit his form is better because he’s actually playing. 

But then again only in Scotland could you have the best Scottish player in a position not selected for a squad because he’s to young so has to play through the age groups. 
 

Patterson’s out do the call up the McGinn boy who’s no where near as good as ramsay this season either 

Behave min. 

Any solution which involves Ralston being first choice for Scotland in any game is completely flawed 

[thurso]

5 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Behave min. 

Any solution which involves Ralston being first choice for Scotland in any game is completely flawed 

I’m not saying he should be first choice but he would deserve a call up more than Patterson because he’s been playing regularly. 
 

If Patterson was playing for the rangers every week I’d have no problems with him in the squad but he’s not tavinier plays ahead of him.

It’s not like the player ahead of him is the best in the world at that position 

[DelMonte]

The issue is Patterson actually looked like a player who’s hardly played on Saturday. Slack on the ball, not switched on enough etc.

Done well for the goal but it’s not painting the full picture. He needs to be playing more.

To the argument about Gilmour being the same; I’d have thought the same about him but he seems to be an exceptional talent. Handled every challenge thrown at him with ease so far.

[Durrant Dived]

Ralston and Ramsay should be in the squad ahead of Paul Mcginn. End of.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

2 minutes ago, Durrant Dived said:

Ralston and Ramsay should be in the squad ahead of Paul Mcginn. End of.

Then you are capping a player who has had about 4 good appearances following hundreds of crap ones. Ralston is pish.

Hibs have had a good start to the league. Sitting at the top. I have seen absolutely 0 of them but maybe McGinn has been playing well... I have no idea.... and i'm not interested enough to find out

 

[afc1903mad]

Just now, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

No point in kidding Ramsay is as good as he is, yet. 

What makes Patterson as good as you believe?

For me, from what I've seen of both players, they are very similar. The only differentiator is that Ramsay is playing this year, Patterson is not.

I certainly would not be thinking that Calvin is in anyway not as good as Patterson

[thurso]

33 minutes ago, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

Ralston has been in good form and been playing regularly, definitely deserved a call up. 
 

Patterson made a positive run and one two with Nisbet, that created the goal. We all hate huns here but fuck me if you can't see that he more or less won us the game Saturday with that one bit of positive play, your hatred is making you delusional. 
 

He'll play better. No point in kidding Ramsay is as good as he is, yet. 

Rubbish. It’s nothing to do with a hatred for the rangers players I was a alan hutton supporter Barry Ferguson the lot, it’s more the fact he isn’t playing playing. 
 

I watched the game with a rangers fan and even he said he played shit.
 

No need to argue tho since he’s out again so doesnt really matter. But if he doesn’t play regularly between now and the games in November he shouldn’t be in that squad either. Fleeting league cup games don’t count ?

[afc1903mad]

Just now, ConsiCanBoogie1903 said:

I think Patterson has better close control, makes inside runs better, and generally moves better. 
Ramsay likes to cross from deep etc and try beat a man on the wing, I also think Patterson is quicker than Ramsay, from what I've seen of them both. 

Difference in opinion then.

Ramsay made some great runs after dropping the should and coming inside in the last couple of games. He's pretty nippy too.

More assists for Ramsay too

Its one thing to look out for for the next SevCo game, comparing the two.

Wait though............ Patterson will likely be pulling out splinters from the bench ?