Match Thread Hearts 2 - 0 Aberdeen

[RED_JOHN]

Just now, slippers said:

I’ll be honest I’d of fancied us more at weekend with glass at helm than Goodwin. My gut told me at time it was another poor appointment at time just hope it starts to click soon! 

Obviously I was wanting rid of Glass as we were struggling but I think he would do better with the players than Jim Naewin.

[Bamber]

14 minutes ago, slippers said:

 Can’t even muster a new manager bounce and win the first few games.

is the new manager bounce really a thing ?  I cant really remember a new manager coming in in recent times and making an impact until they have had a few games under their belt 

I hate hearing a new manager bounce - I dont think it exists these days - a new manager needs a few games to assess and change 

There is a time coming to really work we have the rangers gam - really a free hit then a 2 week gap for internationals so opportunities for a mini preseason 

Hibs then at home - a defining game win that we have top six potential - draw or lose its gone no matter this weekends result three week preeseason and I would hope a freindly to charge on the last 3 pre split games win hibs we have a chance of even europe loose we are bottom six -simples  

[aberdeen1970]

5 minutes ago, Bamber said:

is the new manager bounce really a thing ?  I cant really remember a new manager coming in in recent times and making an impact until they have had a few games under their belt 

I hate hearing a new manager bounce - I dont think it exists these days - a new manager needs a few games to assess and change 

There is a time coming to really work we have the rangers gam - really a free hit then a 2 week gap for internationals so opportunities for a mini preseason 

Hibs then at home - a defining game win that we have top six potential - draw or lose its gone no matter this weekends result three week preeseason and I would hope a freindly to charge on the last 3 pre split games win hibs we have a chance of even europe loose we are bottom six -simples  

You sometimes get a new manager bounce if the players have something about them. 

But our lot are heartless so wasn't expecting one.  We've assembled a group with weak character, folk can say they are good on paper all they want but they've shown zero desire all season apart from the odd 30 minutes here and there.  It's just a bad group in the main. 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Or if the players were underperforming.  Sadly I don’t think ours are.

[Bamber]

when has there been an immediate new manager bounce in the last 5 years?

As to your 2nd point Aberdeen has been at its best as a team of players rather than players in a team. look at McInnes early years not the best players but a really good team now we have really good players but a really poor team. strengths dont compliment ( Ramirez -stunning cant get him playing (balls over the top is not his game) and weakness dont protect (brown and fergusson, gallagher and bates, any full back with a wide forward) . so many pairings dont work together but are individually good. Brown and fergusson SHOULD be spectacular but they aint  

BUT i dont think it will take a lot to sort it out we have a good lot of players but not a good team - there is a big difference  

[Ten Caat]

35 minutes ago, thurso said:

All I can say about that game is it’s probably the worst performance I seen us play at tynecastle and I was at the semi final we lost to dundee utd. 
 

Top dons for me were the hardy souls who traveled down to pay good money to watch that. I feel for you 

Worst for me was either late Sept or early October 87 (might well have been Keith Edwards' debut??). We got beaten 2-1, with a far stronger Dons side than we do now (admittedly Hearts were much stronger too)......we had the likes of Bett (who scored a late consolation for us), Connor and Peter Nicholas in our midfield,  and obviously God, Leighton, McLeish and McKimmie were all still in our defence. But counteracting this, we also had shite like Gary Hackett, Tom Jones and the aforementioned Edwards, all signed by Porterfield.

Like last night, it was an absolutely turgid performance, players seemed to be going through the motions and not looking like they gave a shit. It was 2-1 but Hearts were dominant and really should have been 3 or 4 but for poor finishing. Porterfield of course would walk away at the end of the season, and the three duff signings I mentioned wee all gone at various stages in '88 too thankfully. I actually didnt realise till now that Tom Jones actually ended up as assistant manager to Porterfield a couple of times in South Korea and at the Armenian national side (where he actually took over for a short spell after Porterfield died of cancer)

[aberdeen1970]

4 minutes ago, Bamber said:

when has there been an immediate new manager bounce in the last 5 years?

As to your 2nd point Aberdeen has been at its best as a team of players rather than players in a team. look at McInnes early years not the best players but a really good team now we have really good players but a really poor team. strengths dont compliment ( Ramirez -stunning cant get him playing (balls over the top is not his game) and weakness dont protect (brown and fergusson, gallagher and bates, any full back with a wide forward) . so many pairings dont work together but are individually good. Brown and fergusson SHOULD be spectacular but they aint  

BUT i dont think it will take a lot to sort it out we have a good lot of players but not a good team - there is a big difference  

The players don't have it mentally Bamber, that's the main issue. 

Although I think you are also over rating some of them technically. 

[Bamber]

Ithink there is a lot of mentaillity (strange with brown on board you would think that would have been a missing piece)

I think there are too many - not clashes - but inconsistencies in types

differnent subject did a management exercise once with a group of excellent people one group had loads of completer finishers and very few leader and team players  and the other vice versa. Neither team could do anything both were paralysed. and stunningly bad. The leader team no eye for detail the completer team no direction  Changing a couple on each team and suddenly the teams became really efficient - both teams worked because of the balance. Was an important life lesson for me and think it applys here      

Personally I dont think you can over rate people you need them in the right group, that not a like minded group but a balanced group. I always like chris clark for instance never an 8 performance never would win you a game on his own but di his job in the team really well and let others do theres and brings balance - Dare I say it so does Ryan Jack - compliments others around him were is our cart horse amongst racehoreses? Our player to do the heavy lifting?   

[The Gee Man]

The Brown “Circus “ is probably going against us now, with the is or isn’t he Assistant. The squad can pick up on the tension. Albeit this motley crew of supposed footballers who can’t string a few passes together and have no idea how to defend or score, don’t actually give a shit.

[aberdeen1970]

11 minutes ago, Bamber said:

Ithink there is a lot of mentaillity (strange with brown on board you would think that would have been a missing piece)

I think there are too many - not clashes - but inconsistencies in types

differnent subject did a management exercise once with a group of excellent people one group had loads of completer finishers and very few leader and team players  and the other vice versa. Neither team could do anything both were paralysed. and stunningly bad. The leader team no eye for detail the completer team no direction  Changing a couple on each team and suddenly the teams became really efficient - both teams worked because of the balance. Was an important life lesson for me and think it applys here      

Personally I dont think you can over rate people you need them in the right group, that not a like minded group but a balanced group. I always like chris clark for instance never an 8 performance never would win you a game on his own but di his job in the team really well and let others do theres and brings balance - Dare I say it so does Ryan Jack - compliments others around him were is our cart horse amongst racehoreses? Our player to do the heavy lifting?   

Personally I see a group of players who either are scared to make a mistake or else want away and don't really give a fuck with a few exceptions. 

Generally though they are a bunch whose heads go down at the slightest setback. 

I also see plenty positions where the players either aren't good enough technically or physically any more because they've seen better days or havent really got it in the first place.  I don't buy into this theory that some have that we've got a great squad of players.  

We have to deal in the here and now. For example if we had Lewis, Hayes and Brown of 5 years ago it would be a different conversation. 

[don corleone]

, I just watched the goals again. The piss weak defending for their second was utterly shameful. We made a very ordinary hearts side look like world beaters. Completely unforgivable. I'm stating to detest this group of players (I can't even bring myself to call them a team, they're so far from being one). I haven't felt this level of distain since the group captained by that cunt stain mark kerr, I shudder at the memory of those dark days, but here we are again. These wee pussies need a real boot up the arse, and judging by his face, Jim Goodwin is well aware of this. The man looked utterly disgusted at what he was witnessing last night. As he should be. 

[thurso]

2 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

Worst for me was either late Sept or early October 87 (might well have been Keith Edwards' debut??). We got beaten 2-1, with a far stronger Dons side than we do now (admittedly Hearts were much stronger too)......we had the likes of Bett (who scored a late consolation for us), Connor and Peter Nicholas in our midfield,  and obviously God, Leighton, McLeish and McKimmie were all still in our defence. But counteracting this, we also had shite like Gary Hackett, Tom Jones and the aforementioned Edwards, all signed by Porterfield.

Like last night, it was an absolutely turgid performance, players seemed to be going through the motions and not looking like they gave a shit. It was 2-1 but Hearts were dominant and really should have been 3 or 4 but for poor finishing. Porterfield of course would walk away at the end of the season, and the three duff signings I mentioned wee all gone at various stages in '88 too thankfully. I actually didnt realise till now that Tom Jones actually ended up as assistant manager to Porterfield a couple of times in South Korea and at the Armenian national side (where he actually took over for a short spell after Porterfield died of cancer)

Well if that night was worse than last night or the semi final loss thank god I wasn’t there but to be honest it’s not unusual to loose with some of the players you listed in the team playing 

[RUL]

2 hours ago, slippers said:

I don’t trust the players and I’m already doubting our new manager. Can’t even muster a new manager bounce and win the first few games. I think that is the worst performance I’ve seen for a long time! Our club on the park is an absolute joke and I’ll be honest I’m not even sure I blame the managers now the recruitment has to take a lot more of the blame. Our players are fucking shite! Budget increases every year and we get worse. Every game I think we are turning the corner and every week we get pumped. If Dundee or St Johnstone can pick up points I think we could go down we are that bad. Thankfully I don’t think they will be able to bridge the gap…

I think your being unfair on Goodwin. We should have beat utd and we've had some brutal luck with injuries and covid. 

When your reduced to playing ojo right back you know your fucked. 

[thurso]

7 minutes ago, RUL said:

I think your being unfair on Goodwin. We should have beat utd and we've had some brutal luck with injuries and covid. 

When your reduced to playing ojo right back you know your fucked. 

You could of said that about most of the season with injuries 

[RUL]

1 hour ago, don corleone said:

, I just watched the goals again. The piss weak defending for their second was utterly shameful. We made a very ordinary hearts side look like world beaters. Completely unforgivable. I'm stating to detest this group of players (I can't even bring myself to call them a team, they're so far from being one). I haven't felt this level of distain since the group captained by that cunt stain mark kerr, I shudder at the memory of those dark days, but here we are again. These wee pussies need a real boot up the arse, and judging by his face, Jim Goodwin is well aware of this. The man looked utterly disgusted at what he was witnessing last night. As he should be. 

Yeah, it's all a far cry from earlier on in the season, the players all seemed likeable. Even Ramirez attempts to gee up the crowd are pissing me off.

[RUL]

8 minutes ago, thurso said:

You could of said that about most of the season with injuries 

How? Goodwin only started 2 weeks ago.

[Wester Hailes Skins]

1 hour ago, don corleone said:

, I just watched the goals again. The piss weak defending for their second was utterly shameful. We made a very ordinary hearts side look like world beaters. Completely unforgivable. I'm stating to detest this group of players (I can't even bring myself to call them a team, they're so far from being one). I haven't felt this level of distain since the group captained by that cunt stain mark kerr, I shudder at the memory of those dark days, but here we are again. These wee pussies need a real boot up the arse, and judging by his face, Jim Goodwin is well aware of this. The man looked utterly disgusted at what he was witnessing last night. As he should be. 

Not to rub it in. But a kind of lazy corner where Kingsley didn't even have a run. Just jumped straight up. Marked by two. On your penalty spot. Got a clean powerful header on goal. Easily. 

Would imagine Goodwin will start with that. 

[thurso]

14 minutes ago, RUL said:

How? Goodwin only started 2 weeks ago.

Because the previous manager had bad luck with injuries and covid to he also played ojo at right back. 
Lasts nights performance was as bad as anything Iv seen this season 

[jamiesd]

Ferguson needs a wee break on the bench.  Every other midfielder has been dropped, bin him for a couple of games and try something else.  Brown didn't look 100% but i would rather have him in midfield instead of Ferguson at the moment.

[jamiesd]

1 minute ago, thurso said:

Because the previous manager had bad luck with injuries and covid to he also played ojo at right back. 
Lasts nights performance was as bad as anything Iv seen this season 

I got a fair ribbing on the Goodwin thread responding to a comment saying he is good at organising teams.  Well he was murder last night.  He was on a similar run to Glass earlier in the season.  Hopefully he can get some of these players up for it, because we are trouble.

[slippers]

32 minutes ago, RUL said:

I think your being unfair on Goodwin. We should have beat utd and we've had some brutal luck with injuries and covid. 

When your reduced to playing ojo right back you know your fucked. 

Probably. Just pissed off after last night as it was a new low, hands definitely tied with selection but is it too unrealistic to expect a better performance even with players available? Absolute embarrassment our bench the past few games. Isn't Milne the lad that couldn't get a game in the HL?

[don corleone]

51 minutes ago, Wester Hailes Skins said:

Not to rub it in. But a kind of lazy corner where Kingsley didn't even have a run. Just jumped straight up. Marked by two. On your penalty spot. Got a clean powerful header on goal. Easily. 

Would imagine Goodwin will start with that. 

Not at all, your quite right. It was far to easy for hearts all night. 

[donswin1983]

Glad I made the effort to go to the last night. That was fucking honking. 
Completely overrun in the middle of the pitch, although the number 6 (i think) from the mini Huns is a good player and ran the show. He had so much time and space though. 
Pretty much zero creativity and if the tactics were to sit deep and play on the counter, they certainly achieved the former and I have nae idea how they were trying to achieve the latter. The gap between Ramirez and the midfield is massive, then he invariably gets deeper and deeper to get the ball but nobody goes beyond him. 
 

10 mins to go, 2-0 down, hearts corner and we have every player in our own box. That boils my piss.

on the upside, good night out in Edinburgh. Hungover though…

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

1 hour ago, jamiesd said:

I got a fair ribbing on the Goodwin thread responding to a comment saying he is good at organising teams.  Well he was murder last night.  He was on a similar run to Glass earlier in the season.  Hopefully he can get some of these players up for it, because we are trouble.

We are in major trouble min. Thank fuck though we have a 9 point cushion on St. Johnstone and Mark McGhee has just taken over the managerial reins at Dundee.

We'll just have enough points to avoid a relegation play-off but only just.

[Donscanada]

The only saving grace is the other clubs outside of top 3 have shown no consistency either.  Same old issues yesterday inability to keep a cleen sheet and not winning away from home. Funny thing if afc can string a few victories together and we are back in European football.. but that is a big if.

[Don_Corleone]

I feel like a bit of a broken record, but for me the problems all start with Joe Lewis. If you've got a keeper who lets in 50% of the shots that are on target against him, and 90% of his kicks go straight off the park, and who is prone to an absolute howler every few games, who is also meant to be your captain... basically you're screwed. When your backup keeper is somehow 100 times worse (which most would think would be impossible) then you've no viable alternative.

Add to that a defender like Gallagher who has come here thinking he's an international superstar who can stroll it for the final couple of seasons of his career and is totally switched off half the time.... and a defensive partner in Bates who looks constantly nervous.

Then you've got a midfield that's slower than a week in jail with Brown and Ferguson. 

So the spine of the team is utterly useless. Add to that the players filling other positions include Ojo filling in all over the pitch (who is below average in every position), McLennan, Jenks, McKenzie, Kennedy who are all destined for the lower leagues, McGeouch and Hayes who are getting older and hardly ever fully fit.

Then you have Ramirez who is capable of scoring but who must be utterly knackered having run himself into the ground for virtually every single minute of every single game this season because we have no alternative up front.

We're also still wasting money on guys like Devlin and Watkins who have a history of terrible injuries.

Out of the whole squad the only players I'd keep are probably Ramsay, McCrorie, Besoujin, Barron and Ramirez.

[Don_Corleone]

4 hours ago, Bamber said:

when has there been an immediate new manager bounce in the last 5 years?

Davie Martindale - did he not get about 10 wins on the trot or something?

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

23 minutes ago, Don_Corleone said:

Davie Martindale - did he not get about 6 years on the trot or something?

Fixed it for you min?.

 

[Ke1t]

5 hours ago, don corleone said:

, I just watched the goals again. The piss weak defending for their second was utterly shameful. We made a very ordinary hearts side look like world beaters. Completely unforgivable. I'm stating to detest this group of players (I can't even bring myself to call them a team, they're so far from being one). I haven't felt this level of distain since the group captained by that cunt stain mark kerr, I shudder at the memory of those dark days, but here we are again. These wee pussies need a real boot up the arse, and judging by his face, Jim Goodwin is well aware of this. The man looked utterly disgusted at what he was witnessing last night. As he should be. 

 

Goodwin was VERY silly to tell us this was an easy, quick fix. 

It's when you watch a compilation of the goals we've lost this season that it becomes apparent just how bad our back line is. 

 

[Kilgore Trout]

8 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

Worst for me was either late Sept or early October 87 (might well have been Keith Edwards' debut??). We got beaten 2-1, with a far stronger Dons side than we do now (admittedly Hearts were much stronger too)......we had the likes of Bett (who scored a late consolation for us), Connor and Peter Nicholas in our midfield,  and obviously God, Leighton, McLeish and McKimmie were all still in our defence. But counteracting this, we also had shite like Gary Hackett, Tom Jones and the aforementioned Edwards, all signed by Porterfield.

Like last night, it was an absolutely turgid performance, players seemed to be going through the motions and not looking like they gave a shit. It was 2-1 but Hearts were dominant and really should have been 3 or 4 but for poor finishing. Porterfield of course would walk away at the end of the season, and the three duff signings I mentioned wee all gone at various stages in '88 too thankfully. I actually didnt realise till now that Tom Jones actually ended up as assistant manager to Porterfield a couple of times in South Korea and at the Armenian national side (where he actually took over for a short spell after Porterfield died of cancer)

I was at that game. Your recall of it better than mine can’t remember any of it truth be told. Looking back as a result of all the alcohol consumption pre and post match it’s not unusual.