Match Thread (International) Scotland v Ukraine

[Jocky Balboa]

12 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

This result should have been the natural parting of ways for Scotland and Clarke. Instead he was handed a new contract a few months ago and we are stuck with him till 2024. 

It's been blatantly obvious for ages that McTominay isn't a central defender at any level . And that Hanley isn't an international class one. Ditto Liam Cooper.

The Hickey experiment also backfired. He was like a little boy lost out there. 

Hopefully there'll be a raft of international retirements in the aftermath

Hanley, Cooper, O'Donnell, Armstrong, Marshall and Gordon as a minimum( Marshall and Gordon would both  be serviceable for the Euro campaign but would hamper the progress of a younger long term 'keeper so I'd rather they stepped aside and let Clarke experiment a bit). Wouldn't be averse to seeing Robertson retiring too but I doubt he will

The problem is, who else is out there who is not only markedly better than Clarke, but who would genuinely want the job? I remember Lothar Matthaus expressed interest a number of years ago, but he didn't set the heather alight with Hungary. I think we missed a trick years ago by appointing Vogts, when George Graham was available and maybe, just maybe, could have been persuaded. Other than that, I see few options.

11 hours ago, Just Dandy said:

Disagree - this result should be used to determine absolutely zero.

It's a complete one-off situation, playing an oppressed and war-torn country who are desperate to win for powerful symbolic reasons.

It's not indicative of anything - except the psychology of one team desperate to win; and the other team, on some unavoidable level, guilty about the very idea of winning.

And then you've got folk like Souness intensifying that by coming out and saying they want the opposition to win.

Add to all of the above the fact that I can't see anyone more suited to the post than Clarke actually wanting to the job, and I'm quite sanguine about the situation.

I agree and would add that Souness, in addition to being the biggest hacking bastard in Scottish football's history, should never get within a hundred miles of the job. 

11 hours ago, Poodler said:

If we’re getting into political posts, they could’ve at least done one for Palestine when we played israel!!!!
 

Although considering we send to money to israel for those atrocities, it may be against the grain 

Correct. The virtue signalling for Ukraine is pathetic, but also ironic when you see the rainbow flag crusaders liken Putin to Hitler, sidestepping the fact that not only are Communism and Nazism diametrically opposed, but in WWII half of Ukraine supported the Nazis. 

[torry_battery_ram]

4 hours ago, Zeus said:

Armenia in the nations league next week though

We go again!

2-0 Armenia 

If we lose to Armenia we may as well give up international football altogether. Even Norway beat Armenia 9-0 not so long ago.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

11 minutes ago, torry_battery_ram said:

If we lose to Armenia we may as well give up international football altogether. Even Norway beat Armenia 9-0 not so long ago.

“Even Norway” who have Haaland up front instead of an Australian bloke who managed 10 goals for QPR last season 

[CCB III]

We're shit.  
 

Ukranian players go and learn their trade in Central Europe. Our guys mostly come through Scottish ranks, and move up levels in their professional careers. 
 

This was shown last night. Player for player our teams are close, IMO. But their technical ability was ridiculously superior. Finding space, first time passes through the lines in tight situations, pressing as a team, getting the ball on the half turn. 
 

We were effectively launching it to dykes for the first 45 minutes. It was a tactical abomination by Clarke. 
 

What a build up for a typically crushing disappointment. Reminded me of the Croatia game at the Euros. 
 

Ok we got to Euros, through the back door, via 2 penalty shoot outs. But bar those two games, that could've went either way, Clarke has largely fucked it on the huge occasions. Czech match, Croatia match, Ukraine. Games where we could definitely get positive results but the typically negative selection and attitude costs us. 
 

I don't think we'll ever make a World Cup. 

[thurso]

5 hours ago, HaarDon said:

I didnt think we were that bad.

Hickey had some nice moves but the defence was utter shite and the marking woeful.

Some great moves but this was a team who drew twice with France.

Tough ask and skill doesnt suddenly leave your players when you're at war.

4 things on your 'to do' list Mr Clarke:

1. Never play Dykes again. 

2. Never play McTominay again.

3. Get McKenna in the squad!

4. Find a Scottish striker.

We were crap but had our best spell when mctominay was taken out of defence and put in midfield. 
 

john McGinn was again crap in a big game but I suppose they all were

[Helmet]

11 minutes ago, CCB III said:

We're shit.  
 

Ukranian players go and learn their trade in Central Europe. Our guys mostly come through Scottish ranks, and move up levels in their professional careers. 
 

This was shown last night. Player for player our teams are close, IMO. But their technical ability was ridiculously superior. Finding space, first time passes through the lines in tight situations, pressing as a team, getting the ball on the half turn. 
 

We were effectively launching it to dykes for the first 45 minutes. It was a tactical abomination by Clarke. 
 

What a build up for a typically crushing disappointment. Reminded me of the Croatia game at the Euros. 
 

Ok we got to Euros, through the back door, via 2 penalty shoot outs. But bar those two games, that could've went either way, Clarke has largely fucked it on the huge occasions. Czech match, Croatia match, Ukraine. Games where we could definitely get positive results but the typically negative selection and attitude costs us. 
 

I don't think we'll ever make a World Cup. 

Yep. They have some very good players.

They also won the u21 World Cup in 2019 apparently so have good youngsters coming through.

How shit are our u18-u21 teams?

Then to top it all they've been preparing for this moment ever since Putin invaded Ukraine, it's a huge deal for them to qualify now and I think they'll do Wales too.

The only way the lose to wales is Bale has some  absolutely blinder or Ukraine are mentally drained after last nights game which is possible I think as the adrenaline was really pumping last night.

 

[torry_battery_ram]

35 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

“Even Norway” who have Haaland up front instead of an Australian bloke who managed 10 goals for QPR last season 

Haaland only scored two of the nine. 

We SHOULD be beating Armenia even with an English Championship Australian striker. 

 

[davieb]

38 minutes ago, CCB III said:

We're shit.  
 

Ukranian players go and learn their trade in Central Europe. Our guys mostly come through Scottish ranks, and move up levels in their professional careers. 
 

This was shown last night. Player for player our teams are close, IMO. But their technical ability was ridiculously superior. Finding space, first time passes through the lines in tight situations, pressing as a team, getting the ball on the half turn. 
 

We were effectively launching it to dykes for the first 45 minutes. It was a tactical abomination by Clarke. 
 

What a build up for a typically crushing disappointment. Reminded me of the Croatia game at the Euros. 
 

Ok we got to Euros, through the back door, via 2 penalty shoot outs. But bar those two games, that could've went either way, Clarke has largely fucked it on the huge occasions. Czech match, Croatia match, Ukraine. Games where we could definitely get positive results but the typically negative selection and attitude costs us. 
 

I don't think we'll ever make a World Cup. 

This ... Clarke got to the Euros through the backdoor, and the purple patch we had during the qualification group is long gone.

We seemed incapable of making space, recycling the ball, and finding a team-mate, the backline was shocking and that miss by McGinn!?

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

51 minutes ago, CCB III said:

This was shown last night. Player for player our teams are close, IMO. But their technical ability was ridiculously superior. Finding space, first time passes through the lines in tight situations, pressing as a team, getting the ball on the half turn. 
 

We were effectively launching it to dykes for the first 45 minutes. It was a tactical abomination by Clarke. 
 

What a build up for a typically crushing disappointment. Reminded me of the Croatia game at the Euros. 

Aye. It was exactly the same as the Croatia game. Coming straight after the performances at Wembley, confidence was high. Then we rocked up against a good team and thought we could just punt it up the park and win. Completely embarrassing. Before the game I was looking at the clubs across the middle of the park - Liverpool, Celtic, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Bologna. How do you end up with a performance like that? Not one of them could pass the ball. McGregor maybe gets a 4 out of 10 and is our best outfield player. 

Some of the passing from Ukraine was immense. I'm sure we made it easy for them at times but they were really cutting us open. Far better team than us. Which I think most of us already knew... but with Scotland on form, playing at home and with the crowd behind us I think we hoped for a lot better.

[Poodler]

Scotland have been consistently poor for a generation, even through the hun demise. Can we blame Celtic/ huns for the talent gathering/ stunting when one half of them died and Scotland stayed poor? 
 

there are smaller(population)  countries who consistently perform better, there are countries with a poorer standard of league who perform better. Scotland have tried dinosaur managers and relatively fresh ones yet it’s always the same product. 
 

what is it about Scotland and international fitba that just doesn’t work? 

Can’t be much other nations like yon

[Ramandu]

Jeepers, some nonsense being spouted here.

We're rubbish, but slightly less rubbish than we were before Clark took over, and he's had moments where we've looked half decent (not last night though).

[Just Dandy]

6 hours ago, Helmet said:

I'm of a similar mind really.

The result didn't surprise me one bit, I think the Ukraine players are a better than ours and knew they'd be more up for it.

Maybe that's why I'm not losing my shit about it.

The real disappointment for me is Scotland still produces such poor football players despite the SFA reinventing their academy system umpteen times.

Until we produce better players and give our national managers some proper attacking talent we'll won't achieve anything of note.

The focus of people's anger should be the SFA. They've had decades to sort out our game so we develop real talent and have made so little progress it's.

This is the bottom line for me.

If we had all these fantastic talents that Clarke wasn't making use of then yes, I'd see him as culpable. But we just don't.

And what young talents we do have, like Gilmour, you get folk complaining when he plays them.

On a lighter note, saw a Boot Room article today describing us as "Scott McTominay’s Scotland". Good to see life hasn't lost its sense of humour. ?

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

Aye no chance we should look at binning Clarke. That was the first time we made the play offs from a qualifying group since the Euro 2004 qualifiers.... and we were pot 2 for that (only had to beat iceland, lithuania & faroes), as opposed to pot 3 for this. He has improved us. Yesterday was a clear off day though. Hopefully we can coast through to Euro 2026 without any play offs.

[Kittybrewster Loon]

39 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Aye no chance we should look at binning Clarke. That was the first time we made the play offs from a qualifying group since the Euro 2004 qualifiers.... and we were pot 2 for that (only had to beat iceland, lithuania & faroes), as opposed to pot 3 for this. He has improved us. Yesterday was a clear off day though. Hopefully we can coast through to Euro 2026 without any play offs.

The guy is a filthy alcoholic. Absolutely no business managing a national team at the world cup 

[Dynamo]

We're a small country and have unrealistic expectations when it comes to the national team. That's my hot take.

We should make it to more (most) Euros but the World Cup is a different kettle of fish.

[NEM]

27 minutes ago, Kittybrewster Loon said:

The guy is a filthy alcoholic. Absolutely no business managing a national team at the world cup 

Should have been sacked when the squad went on the piss for days after the win in Serbia, in the build up to 2 nations league games.
 

I dare say that standard lack of professionalism is a major part of why Scotland have been shit for decades.

[ericblack4boss]

The clamour for McKenna , did he not have a fucking nightmare against Croatia in the Euros indeed was he not booked within seconds of coming on , rendering him a liability for any challenges there on in

[Ten Caat]

13 minutes ago, ericblack4boss said:

The clamour for McKenna , did he not have a fucking nightmare against Croatia in the Euros indeed was he not booked within seconds of coming on , rendering him a liability for any challenges there on in

He's been outstanding for promoted Forest all season. Faster than Cooper and better in the air than Hanley who both got the nod ahead of him last night. I don't see us conceding the first goal we lost last night if McKenna had been in the side.

And if nothing else, he is a genuine centre half. Quite why Clarke keeps insisting on playing McTominay there, when Stevie Wonder, Colonel Blink and Andrea Bocelli can all see that he's a fucking liability is completely beyond me. 

[mutant]

49 minutes ago, NEM said:

Should have been sacked when the squad went on the piss for days after the win in Serbia, in the build up to 2 nations league games.
 

I dare say that standard lack of professionalism is a major part of why Scotland have been shit for decades.

Lack of professionalism is exactly one of the  the main issues.

Scottish players looked a lot less fit, it’s the same through the youth teams. I watched the last couple of televised youth games and we got destroyed. 
Really don’t see it changing either, been the same shite for 25 years. Couple of “decent” players surrounded by crap like Hanley and Dykes. Horrible to watch. 
 

 

 

[Jigsaw666]

We just didn't get started. IMO they bought into all the sentimental crap. Think our lot thought it was all going to be a bit of a love in while Ukraine came out determined to win no matter what. Clarke still has enough brownie points in the bank to ride out this setback though. I'll go against the grain and say I want Ukraine to go through coz I can't stomach Bale and fuck Ramsey. Expect Ukraine will wheel out Zinchenko to greet in an interview the day before again. Worked this time around.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

1 hour ago, Ten Caat said:

He's been outstanding for promoted Forest all season. Faster than Cooper and better in the air than Hanley who both got the nod ahead of him last night. I don't see us conceding the first goal we lost last night if McKenna had been in the side.

And if nothing else, he is a genuine centre half. Quite why Clarke keeps insisting on playing McTominay there, when Stevie Wonder, Colonel Blink and Andrea Bocelli can all see that he's a fucking liability is completely beyond me. 

Souter also

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

2 hours ago, Ten Caat said:

He's been outstanding for promoted Forest all season. Faster than Cooper and better in the air than Hanley who both got the nod ahead of him last night. I don't see us conceding the first goal we lost last night if McKenna had been in the side.

And if nothing else, he is a genuine centre half. Quite why Clarke keeps insisting on playing McTominay there, when Stevie Wonder, Colonel Blink and Andrea Bocelli can all see that he's a fucking liability is completely beyond me. 

Levein was saying on Saturday on radio Scotland hed pick mckenna cause he’s been flying all season while Cooper and Hanley have been absolutely battered every week all season. Fair comment from the 4-6-0 champ 

[Just Dandy]

1 hour ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

Souter also

This is another thing. Why is his name spelt "Souttar" ?

I mean, we can guess one of his forebears souted for a living - but where the fuck does the "a" come into it?? ?

[Reed or deed]

The A came about due to his family and ancestors being arse bandits.

[Itsagoal]

I was 10 years old when we went to the 1974 World Cup. I was 34 years when we last went to a World Cup in 1998. I’m now 58. Will I see Scotland again at a World Cup before I pop my clogs?

[thurso]

18 minutes ago, Itsagoal said:

I was 10 years old when we went to the 1974 World Cup. I was 34 years when we last went to a World Cup in 1998. I’m now 58. Will I see Scotland again at a World Cup before I pop my clogs?

Depends if you die in the next 4 years or not 

[Don Fonte]

19 minutes ago, Itsagoal said:

I was 10 years old when we went to the 1974 World Cup. I was 34 years when we last went to a World Cup in 1998. I’m now 58. Will I see Scotland again at a World Cup before I pop my clogs?

Where are you from?

If a weegie I think you'll be dead before the following world cup.

[NEM]

13 minutes ago, Don Fonte said:

Where are you from?

If a weegie I think you'll be dead before the following world cup.

Be lucky to see Qatar if that’s the case!

[Just Dandy]

14 minutes ago, Don Fonte said:

Where are you from?

If a weegie I think you'll be dead before the following world cup.

If he comes from Govan, at 58 he's pretty much statistically dead already.

[WesthillWanderersFC]

1 minute ago, Just Dandy said:

If he comes from Govan, at 58 he's pretty much statistically dead already.

Govan… dead already… thought I’d come into the SEVCO thread by mistake.