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2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Why isn't there? 
 

Is it fair that prepubescent kids play v adults? One will have an advantage over the other? 
 

Or is it that not all sports follow the same guidelines and formula for such things. 
 

It's not as simple as, genetically superior= victor. 
 

 

Are you fishing here? Genuinely?

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Just now, NEM said:

Are you fishing here? Genuinely?

Not even a little bit. 
 

Explained my point to Moobs. Cba repeating it. 

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3 minutes ago, NEM said:

If the other side is demonstrable nonsense aye. 
 

Don’t engage with me if you like, makes zero odds to me. You make a cunt of yourself with plenty other posters 

"Demonstrable nonsense to me"

 

Is what you should say. Plenty other people more open/understanding to it. Even biologists and yes you guessed it, scientists! 
 

Im sure you'll know more than them with your extensive internet research. 

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Just now, CCB III said:

"Demonstrable nonsense to me"

 

Is what you should say. Plenty other people more open/understanding to it. Even biologists and yes you guessed it, scientists! 
 

Im sure you'll know more than them with your extensive internet research. 

No demonstrable nonsense to anyone with a functioning brain. What is a woman? A question the trans loonies can’t answer. Science > feelings.

 

End of discussion.

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6 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

You're asking the wrong person Consi.

It doesn't make sense

 

Going by the Olympic standards too much testosterone makes you a man, even if you don't identity as one and you weren't born one. 
 

Olympics also have kids compete v adults and there aren't always adult winners, despite the fact adults will be physically and biologically more capable, being post pubescent. It doesn't guarantee anything. Or at least, not in every sport. 
 

It needs to be viewed as a case by case basis after extensive studies and a better understanding. Until then, like I say, set up a tertiary category and even a fourth one for trans women, then decide what to do when more is known. 
 

For example; 

 

Cage fighting; you can be pretty certain the outcome there will be grim 

 

Curling; Who knows? That's more about skill 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, NEM said:

No demonstrable nonsense to anyone with a functioning brain. What is a woman? A question the trans loonies can’t answer. Science > feelings.

 

End of discussion.

What is a woman to you? 
 

Edit; all those top tier biologists/scientists who study the phenomenon, and don't write it off as "lunacy" don't have functioning brains? 
 

You're saying you're smarter than people who study sex/gender/biology for a living? 
 

That's fair on brother. When did you get your doctorate? 

Edited by CCB III

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Just now, CCB III said:

What is a woman to you? 

An adult human female 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

What is a woman to you? 

Double post. FTH

Edited by NEM

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Just now, NEM said:

An adult human female 

That's generally the accepted term. But what's the difference between them and an adult trans female? 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, CCB III said:

So why was Semenyo banned? Despite being born a woman, competing with other women? No evidence of illegal drugs either?

Semenya was born intersex. Actually is male, every cell in "her" body has XY chromosomes and the reason why "her" testosterone levels are/were so high is that "she" has internal undescended testes.

Presumably at birth was assigned female as what actually should be his bawsack was actually formed incompletely and resembled a vagina. At that point there was no suspicion of him being anything other than a girl.

In reality, it's really a decent club level male athlete....but  club level male athletes are still generally around the same performance levels as elite female athletes. By suppressing his testosterone, his performance levels were reduced so that the real women managed to outperform him comfortably. But was then decided that as he wasn't taking the testosterone artificially that forcing him to take drugs to reduce it would be against his human rights.

Edited by Ten Caat

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Just now, CCB III said:

That's generally the accepted term. But what's the difference between them and an adult trans female? 

Jesus Christ 🤦🏻‍♂️

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2 minutes ago, NEM said:

Jesus Christ 🤦🏻‍♂️

Seriously. What's the difference? 

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1 minute ago, CCB III said:

Seriously. What's the difference? 

Ten Catts answered in his post above but you already knew that 

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3 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Semenya was born intersex. Actually is male, every cell in "her" body has XY chromosomes and the reason why "her" testosterone levels are/were so high is that "she" has internal undescended testes.

Presumably at birth was assigned female as what actually should be his bawsack was actually formed incompletely and resembled a vagina. At that point there was no suspicion of him being anything other than a girl.

In reality, it's really a decent club level male athlete....but  club level male athletes are still generally around the same performance levels as elite female athletes. By suppressing his testosterone, his performance levels were reduced so that the real women managed to outperform him comfortably. But was then decided that as he wasn't taking the testosterone artificially that forcing him to take drugs to reduce it would be against his human rights.

So she was raised a gal. 
 

Has specific genetics that make her superior to other gals. 
 

Clearly doesn't have a cock, which is what everyone on here seemed to say defines a man/woman? Cock or no cock. 

So she's a woman, being denied race time for a bullshit reason. Shame. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, NEM said:

Ten Catts answered in his post above but you already knew that 

But I thought it was cock or no cock? 
 

Semenya has a vagina? 
 

That makes her a woman, no?

 

I thought it was 1 or 2. No room for grey area?

 

How can you say she's a man when she has a vagina? That isn't consistent with your other trains of thought?

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2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

But I thought it was cock or no cock? 
 

Semenya has a vagina? 
 

That makes her a woman, no?

 

I thought it was 1 or 2. No room for grey area?

 

How can you say she's a man when she has a vagina? That isn't consistent with your other trains of thought?

Projecting 

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1 minute ago, NEM said:

Projecting 

Where am I projecting? 
 

You've just called Semenya, a woman with a vagina, a man. 
 

That's entirely inconsistent with your other trains of thought? 
 

You're adamant everyone is one or the other, categorised by their genitals, mainly. 
 

She has no cock, she has a vagina, so surely, woman? 
 

Just following your own logic here,  buddy 

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3 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Where am I projecting? 
 

You've just called Semenya, a woman with a vagina, a man. No I didn’t. He is a man but was another poster who called him it, a poster I’d suggest is more qualified than you or I.

That's entirely inconsistent with your other trains of thought? Projecting again
 

You're adamant everyone is one or the other, categorised by their genitals, mainly. Projecting again
 

She has no cock, she has a vagina, so surely, woman? Read TC’s post properly, he doesn’t 
 

Just following your own logic here,  buddy Nope 

You’re all over the fucking place min. Take Bri’s advice, for your own good 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, NEM said:

You’re all over the fucking place min. Take Bri’s advice, for your own good 

https://theconversation.com/amp/ten-ethical-flaws-in-the-caster-semenya-decision-on-intersex-in-sport-116448
 

Fascinating read if you get a few mins. 
 

Can Semenya be a man without a penis? 
 

What is a man if not? And what is a man if so?

Edited by CCB III

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2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Seriously. What's the difference? 

Real women have XX sex chromosomes

Real men have XY chromosomes

Its a myth to say that either sex only produces the hormones that Joe Public associates with being male or female......males do produce oestrogen in small quantities amd females produce testosterone in small quantities. 

By giving a transsexual the main sex hormone produced by the opposite sex, you can artificially induce some physical (and emotional/psychological too) traits associated with that sex.....so a female to male will grow more body and facial hair, will be able to increase muscle mass if using the correct diet and physical training regime.......and you might induce them to go bald on top.

Male to females will grow breasts, put on body fat to make their hips more curvaceous and their body hair may reduce a bit. 

But ultimately you cannot alter the basic genetic code assigned on conception. You can perform plastic surgery to make a male to female transsexual look almost indistinguishable from the neck downwards to a real female. And at least you are in this instance removing the testes, the main source of their male hormones. But in most cases it's difficult to achieve a difference facially that is truly convincing. 

Female to male genital surgery is much more complex...the best way to describe it is that its a bit like making a swiss roll out of their labia to achieve a neo-penis...but its not very convincing, doesnt achieve erection and often the urethra is left underneath in roughly same position as it would be naturally and they still need to sit down to pee. And in this case, in most instances you arent touching the internal female organs so the uterus and ovaries etc remain.

You cannot change a person's sex. Ever

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1 minute ago, Ten Caat said:

Does have a cock, but was mistaken for a clitoris and is partially hidden by the "labia"

Is that confirmed or speculated? 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, CCB III said:

So she was raised a gal. 
 

Has specific genetics that make her superior to other gals. 
 

Clearly doesn't have a cock, which is what everyone on here seemed to say defines a man/woman? Cock or no cock. 

So she's a woman, being denied race time for a bullshit reason. Shame. 

 

 

Does have a cock (although very small), but was mistaken for a clitoris and is partially hidden by the "labia"

Edited by Ten Caat

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3 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Real women have XX sex chromosomes

Real men have XY chromosomes

Its a myth to say that either sex only produces the hormones that Joe Public associates with being male or female......males do produce oestrogen in small quantities amd females produce testosterone in small quantities. 

By giving a transsexual the main sex hormone produced by the opposite sex, you can artificially induce some physical (and emotional/psychological too) traits associated with that sex.....so a female to male will grow more body and facial hair, will be able to increase muscle mass if using the correct diet and physical training regime.......and you might induce them to go bald on top.

Male to females will grow breasts, put on body fat to make their hips more curvaceous and their body hair may reduce a bit. 

But ultimately you cannot alter the basic genetic code assigned on conception. You can perform plastic surgery to make a male to female transsexual look almost indistinguishable from the neck downwards to a real female. And at least you are in this instance removing the testes, the main source of their male hormones. But in most cases it's difficult to achieve a difference facially that is truly convincing. 

Female to male genital surgery is much more complex...the best way to describe it is that its a bit like making a swiss roll out of their labia to achieve a neo-penis...but its not very convincing, doesnt achieve erection and often the urethra is left underneath in roughly same position as it would be naturally and they still need to sit down to pee. And in this case, in most instances you arent touching the internal female organs so the uterus and ovaries etc remain.

You cannot change a person's sex. Ever

I don't think anyone has suggested you can change a persons sex once it's been set

 

My only assertion is that humans are complicated and your sex doesn't necessarily relate to your gender. 
 

I read this a few years back and fished it out 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

 

Interesting, I thought. 

 

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3 minutes ago, CCB III said:

https://theconversation.com/amp/ten-ethical-flaws-in-the-caster-semenya-decision-on-intersex-in-sport-116448
 

Fascinating read if you get a few mins. 
 

Can Semenya be a man without a penis? 
 

What is a man if not? And what is a man if so?

 

3 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Real women have XX sex chromosomes

Real men have XY chromosomes

Its a myth to say that either sex only produces the hormones that Joe Public associates with being male or female......males do produce oestrogen in small quantities amd females produce testosterone in small quantities. 

By giving a transsexual the main sex hormone produced by the opposite sex, you can artificially induce some physical (and emotional/psychological too) traits associated with that sex.....so a female to male will grow more body and facial hair, will be able to increase muscle mass if using the correct diet and physical training regime.......and you might induce them to go bald on top.

Male to females will grow breasts, put on body fat to make their hips more curvaceous and their body hair may reduce a bit. 

But ultimately you cannot alter the basic genetic code assigned on conception. You can perform plastic surgery to make a male to female transsexual look almost indistinguishable from the neck downwards to a real female. And at least you are in this instance removing the testes, the main source of their male hormones. But in most cases it's difficult to achieve a difference facially that is truly convincing. 

Female to male genital surgery is much more complex...the best way to describe it is that its a bit like making a swiss roll out of their labia to achieve a neo-penis...but its not very convincing, doesnt achieve erection and often the urethra is left underneath in roughly same position as it would be naturally and they still need to sit down to pee. And in this case, in most instances you arent touching the internal female organs so the uterus and ovaries etc remain.

You cannot change a person's sex. Ever

KA FUCKING BOOM.

 

Time for bed Consi - off you pop 👋🏻 

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1 minute ago, NEM said:

 

KA FUCKING BOOM.

 

Time for bed Consi - off you pop 👋🏻 

So a woman and a man are only defined but their chromosomes, their genitals? Nothing else? 
 

Not sure the science entirely supports that rigid view. 
 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205084203.htm
 

 

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Just now, NEM said:

Are you still here ffs? 😂

I wholly respect TCs statements. He's a nurse. To be respected. 
 

He ain't however to my knowledge, a biologist, neurologist, or psychologist. 
 

He probably went to nursing school around 30 years ago now, when trans people were considered simply, mentally insane. 
 

The science on that front has changed ten fold in that time. So whilst I respect TC is undoubtedly telling us the truth about what he knows to be a man or a woman, that is probably no longer entirely the case. 
 

There will always be exceptions to any rule of nature. Always. 
 

That's the beauty of science, which you like to reference, it never stays as one thing, the more they study, test, learn, the more rounded and informed our opinions can become. 
 

I won't claim to know more about the human body than TC, what I'm saying is that the science regarding gender, sex etc is constantly evolving. 
 

Nothing in science ever stays in one place. 

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1 minute ago, CCB III said:

I wholly respect TCs statements. He's a nurse. To be respected. 
 

He ain't however to my knowledge, a biologist, neurologist, or psychologist. 
 

He probably went to nursing school around 30 years ago now, when trans people were considered simply, mentally insane. 
 

The science on that front has changed ten fold in that time. So whilst I respect TC is undoubtedly telling us the truth about what he knows to be a man or a woman, that is probably no longer entirely the case. 
 

There will always be exceptions to any rule of nature. Always. 
 

That's the beauty of science, which you like to reference, it never stays as one thing, the more they study, test, learn, the more rounded and informed our opinions can become. 
 

I won't claim to know more about the human body than TC, what I'm saying is that the science regarding gender, sex etc is constantly evolving. 
 

Nothing in science ever stays in one place. 

😂

The bit in bold - total nonsense. The rest of your post - wooly nonsense.

Feel free to dispute any of the points TC has made, otherwise shut the fuck up 😄

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Just now, NEM said:

😂

The bit in bold - total nonsense. The rest of your post - wooly nonsense.

Feel free to dispute any of the points TC has made, otherwise shut the fuck up 😄

My man, I've sent you articles that show it's not entirely the case, you just refuse to read them. How can you say something is nonsense if you refuse to read both sides?

 

Its not for me to dispute, as I won't claim to know more about the human body than him, I'll simply tentatively claim, that what psychologists, biologists and neurologists thought about sex/gender 30 years ago is undoubtedly different to what they think know. 
 

What TCs description was, was a general rule of thumb, but as stated, and anyone who knows anything about science (not that I know much) there are almost always exceptions to the rule in the animal kingdom. 

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